Reno Air Race Crash | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Reno Air Race Crash

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by GuyIncognito, Sep 16, 2011.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
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  2. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    That video is pretty shocking, like the rest of them...

    Thank God there was no post-impact fireball. That would have made it a lot worse for those up to the bleachers.

    Either he wasn't carrying much fuel at that point, or there was some kind of suppressive bladder or other retardant system.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    In the LA times article on Sunday, they said that some spectators were "burned" by the fuel on their skin but it did not catch fire. They said they tried to wash it off with water bottles.

    I wonder if what they were thinking was the coolant system instead.
     
  4. Yep. Get hit with a baseball & your on your own. Probably the same for the air show.
     
  5. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    Agreed. 400? mph is really fast at that close range.....

    Question: a couple of (seconds!!) were missing between the long shot of rounding the corner, then the CU of coming overhead and impacting; was that time intentionally clipped out of the image stream, or just the cameraman repositioning? (we're not seeing the path of the plane after the pitch up and during the time it was out of control....) (no conspiracy issues, just a curiosity....)
     
  6. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    I don't know if this will get seen when it's embedded in umpteen other messages but I'll try.
    I have been incapacitated for 4 days and I haven't been able to do much but read the inane reports and comments in the news papers so I talked to my experts in my old group and to a person they said that the trim tab departure had to have caused the loss of control. The loss of airflow continuity and the resultant flutter due to the huge gap in the elevator was one element but the load change in the elevator did the real damage. Violent pitch up probably put a 5 to 6G load on the pilot which can cause black out. That could explain why there was no power change after loss of control that most pilots would make. If one looks at the photo in post 27 you can see that the elevator is at or near full up position and the tab is not yet completely free of the structure. I saw this same thing at the Reno Air Races in 1967 when Howie Keef in Miss America lost the rudder trim tab and had serious flutter and control deterioration. The trim tabs, by the way, are all aluminum and the rudder and elevators are fabric covered. It was really sad to learn that my friend, Ron Morcom, lost his son Greg in the crash.
     
  7. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow Bob. Our condolences to your friend.
     
  8. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Not worth the paper it is written on ... there will be numerous lawsuits.

    Try quantifying "some" risk in a court ...
    Pete
     
  9. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
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    Bob, my condolences as well.

    As to the inane reporting, I wish the press would stop referring to the event as an "air show." Air shows are demonstrations, where there is a higher expectation of spectator safety. This was an air race, more like NASCAR, with inherently greater risks, especially since you can't have retaining walls between you and the planes. Even people who don't know or care about NASCAR don't refer to it as a "car show".
     
  10. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    Tim Keseluk
    Yep, with a catastrophe like this, terms like "negligence" and "failure to warn" get bandied about with ever greater intensity.
     
  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I just heard from Spasso that a message from Sparky stated that Leeward was subjected to 12 G when the airplane departed and was blacked out from that point on. Data from on board data recorder.I told you all that I didn't know anything about stuff, I was off by one half on the G that occurred at 488 MPH. Thanks to Sparky and Spasso for forwarding this info, I just happened to be on the computer.
     
  12. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Feb 27, 2004
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    Yeah, I had a feeling that he was unconscious from the time of the pitch-up until impact. Considering that, it's fortunate that the airplane didn't come down in the main grandstand.....
     
  13. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
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    Thank God it sounds like Sparky is OK. Have been worried since Friday having not heard from/about him at all.
     
  14. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    I just got the email tonight. I think everyone that was there is having a really tough time.
    He said they were 150 yards from where it happened. (Not far when you think about it.).
    Say a little prayer for everyone..
     
  15. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    Indianapolis
    I'm not surprised at all that they saw 12G on the pitchup. I would have thought that with full control movement at that speed you could pull the wings off the airplane, think about it, you area way above manuevering speed. But the P51 is tough was designed for a lot more load than these guys are carrying, and the wings were clipped, which reduces the amount of G's that could be developed.

    Good to hear that Sparky is OK, that's a relief.
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Yes
    very happy that Sparky is ok
    I hope this is not too hard on him being so close
    I know it would be for me
     
  17. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
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    Jul 26, 2004
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    Just learned that an aquaintance was sitting in the VIP section a few minutrs before the accident and was 50 yards away upon impact. He was pretty badly shaken but otherwise uninjured, lucky as there were reports of injuries across a very wide radius.
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Looks like a volunteer from Houston is amoung those lost....

    Organization here has issued a statement clarifying "air show" vs. Reno's "racing"....

    Thanks for the news about Sparky.
     
  19. bushwhacker

    bushwhacker In Memoriam

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    The profile photo looks as if it was shot from the grandstands to achieve that angle. Also the photo shows no pilot visible with speculation that the seat back collapsed and that the pilot was not able to regain control of the aircraft due to not being able to reach the controls and blacking out under high G forces, per Fox news. What is the seat configuration on the P-51, I take it that it not against a solid bulkhead and is adjustable?
     
  20. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Not trying to be callous or minimize the human tragedy, but can anyone here tell me how rare this plane is?

    I assume it cannot be rebuilt?

    Is it unusual to modify a plane like that? Seems to me that would be like putting a modern turbo engine in a GTO.

    There just can't be many of those left on earth?
     
  21. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    No way it can be rebuilt. It was pulverized into tiny fragments.
     
  22. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    According to the MustangsMustangs.com web site there are 288 surviving with 166 airworthy.
     
  23. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    No.

    He had blacked out from VERY high g's and was unconcious.

    His chin would have been resting on his chest.

    The highly modified cockpit (aerodynamics) only allows the top half to third of his head visible when he's sitting upright. When unconscious, nothing visible.

    This is covered in previous posts above.
     
  24. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    That seat is BUILT of stainless steel and firmly mounted to the structure below. The only thing that collapsed was Jimmy Leeward and that was in a downward direction, not backwards. 12 G is a tremendous and deadly load to apply in a matter of a few seconds and then keep it there for maybe 10 more. It alone can do physical damage to someone not prepared to experience it. Like being shot out of a cannon. Jimmy wasn't trying to reach anything, he was asleep.
     
  25. bushwhacker

    bushwhacker In Memoriam

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    Thanks Bob
     

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