you can't drive a house. but apart from that, what's the stigma between home ownership and car ownership? without too many boring details, i have absolutely no passion for real-estate, and i move home pretty much every year because i get bored of where i am/want an upgrade. in this case, it's really not viable for me to buy a new house everytime i move is it now? as an aside, i'm finally looking at buying some investment properties.... as with cars, for some unknown reason i have the feeling i'd feel like a posuer if i leased a car i didn't want to own in the long-term, whereas i'm quite at home... errr, at my rented home. buying and selling cars is (as far as i can tell ) just as marred with pitfalls and unnecessary fees as property. to get to the point, frankly, i don't want a 308/328/348 for the long term, maybe a year or two, so *financially* is it worth buying and selling one in that time, or just being a poseur and leasing it, whilst keeping other capital available for other stuff? if it were a Stratos or Countach (or most other Bertone things) it'd be a different story, i want it FOR ME FOREVER, but most other cars are like most girlfriends. why buy the cow when you can have the milk cheap?
Leasing won't save you any money. This is because the depreciation the car suffers will be passed on to you by the leasing company. Plus you'll wear their set up costs, interest and their margin. Probably the cheapest way to own a used Ferrari for the short term would be to finance the purchase from a home equity loan where you have the lowest interest rate and no need for new application fees and no costs for early disposal of the car. But for that you need a home loan or an investment loan(s) with decent equity. Phil Ruthven from IBIS has been agreeing with you on home ownership for as long as I can remember. The "advantages" of home ownership are more than financial I guess. The first thing you need to do once you decide not to buy your own home is to develop an investment strategy to ensure you save the money that owning a home forces you to. Very few people seems to be able to do this. Well, I've never met one. Anyway, here are some of Phil's thoughts... http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/future/Transcripts/s968729.htm
ok yeah, if i think i'm going to stay anywhere for more than a year or two then i'll be more likely to think about owning my home, but i'm still enjoying the disposable nomadic lifestyle. sometime in the next few years i'd like to go and live OS for a while, canada, europe, maybe the US, so i don't really want to own anything that i'll have to try and flog, unless there's a significant advantage to it. so i'm relatively confident i'll be doing pretty well sometime in the next 5 years, this is where the sums of the rat race for home ownership don't stack up to me. you can go get a $500k house, live frugally in a normal job because you're too scared of losing the house by taking risks and pay it off in 25-30 years, total cost around $1.2M. or, live a carefree rented life for a few years throwing money at business ideas, one takes off, and you can now buy that $500k home in 2 years without the need for tight budgeting. total cost about $600k. i guess it all depends how much potential you see in yourself, in this case it helps to be a narcissistic megalomaniac. yeah well, that's what this is all about, recently turned 30 and think i should start making a go of things, actually went to Aussie home loans last week to get my feet wet in property. was blown away at how much debt they want to give me, to start with i just want to grab a pissy little managed apartment that i don't have to do anything to except chuck money at. after a while if that seems worthwhile i'll pick up a couple more here and there, we'll see. "What are we gonna do tomorrow night?" Image Unavailable, Please Login
yep now that i'm a decade older it's time for me to move on a decade... from the 80's (Max Headroom) to the 90's (The Brain) say hello to my new avatar. Image Unavailable, Please Login
What are you trying to acheive, whats your goals? Based on the above and my own experiences, ATM you would be lucky to crack 4% PA rental-income return -v- value of the rental residential property.The only advantage is of course the long term capital gain.But then unless you live in it as you main home, your going to ge taxed heavily when you sell it. A better property investment, less or no outgoings too, is commercial property, better returns, less up-keep, and around 6% return. You would be better of putting it into a managed fund.For instance if you want to stick with the *safety* of property, some unlisted property funds are making around 9%PA or more, or forget property all together and put it into one of the many professional funds that are avail. some that do Asian markets,are doing well over 15% PA.Well known companies are floating these all the time, like Citibank [soon to be called Citi] Macquaries etc The most tax effective way to go is the agri. business, such as forest plantations. Have fun, and get some professional advice, and NEVER trust real-estate agents, they make 2nd hand car dealers seem like saints! M
i'm not in it to make scrawny % that barely outdo inflation, for all i care the returns would hopefully just make the property pay for itself. in the end i'm in it for the equity it can provide, so yeah i'm also looking at commercial, however i want to start small so i'm not going to plonk out so much that repayments will change my lifestyle. basically, at some point in the future with a couple low-level investment properties, it will be easier to leverage their on-paper capital to go for commercial stuff. point is, i don't want to sell stuff unless there's a serious gain to be made, not a big fan of paying unnecessary tax.
simple, get debt propelled and just do it, i did and now i'm still debt propelled even after years of paying school, wife, mistress etc
yeah that's the point, i've lived a cash life. been nice, but it doesn't get you the toys. gotta start small though, some of the numbers i've seen are scary for someone with commitmentphobia.
The first step is always the scariest. But once you are in, it is all a bit ho-hum.......... After a few years, you realise the numbers you are playing with have extra "0"'s behind them..... Then it becomes fun for the sheer challenge of it.
money, fireworks, more money, stronium chloride for blood, depleted uranium shells that go thru u worse than the best divorce lawyer
Couple of points to note here: - 308's are about to hit the 30yr mark which is when they come into affordable for all those blokes who were 18 or so when they were released so prices *may* actually go up (and are very unlikely to go down much) so you could gamble on having a couple of years very happy driving and not lose or even make a couple of bucks (but I suspect the numbers will only work if you own the car outright) - work out the sums on how much appreciation the property needs to make each year to be of any benefit keeping in mind that the big jump in prices for this decade has been and gone in most places. Remember you'll be putting in for interest, maintenance, rates, body corp if it's a unit plus buying selling costs which people always forget about but which add up to thousands. Little bit of trivia here - I worked out that if I sold my place, invested the money (at the same rate my other investments have been getting for the past 3 years), paid market rental to stay in the place but would save rates, BC etc the place has to appreciate by 4% (real before inflation) plus selling costs to break even...
In a nutshell: Car = depreciating asset Property = appreciating asset "Mostly" needs to be added after both statements! The biggest plus for property investment is the ease of borrowing money and the leverage that this enables.
Agreed. The only difference between a good buy and a bad buy in property is time....oh, and no situation that requires a fire sale.
ok yeah sorry i didn't mean for this to be a dissertation on economics and personal investment strategies, more along the lines of the stigma between owning/leasing a car vs owning/leasing a home. for eg i don't feel bad at all just renting. the rates are reasonable, the quality/location is good, it requires no tying up of funds, and i'm not eating pot noodles just to afford it. plus i get bored/upgrade often (every year basically) so just buying/selling my home would be a full-time job. i guess the posuer/wank factor comes in suburb-snobbery, but again, i feel no qualms about saying i "only rent" where i am. now, say you want the same qualities from a car... reasonable cost, high quality, not tying up funds, and being able to afford it easily. the posuer/wank factor comes in marque-snobbery, and for some reason i feel that even though the same tests apply between the comparison, i might have a hard time swallowing *not* owning the car. why is that? possibly because i have no passion whatsoever about property, but tons for sportscars. "let's get in my Ferrari and go back to my apartment." - it's just a stigma thing i guess.
yeah that's what i'm considering. in the long run the 308 isn't for me, but it'd be nice to be able to drive it pretty much for free for a couple years vs every other guy my age out buying commodores and bmws and losing $$$$$. yeah, i don't see any sense in buying a residence at this stage, i need to look at stuff that can start paying for itself on a shorter time-frame than waiting several years for the capital appreciation and leverage being able to outweigh the money lost on rent. fwiw i don't intend on ever selling anything unless it's crazy not to, i'm just not interested. that's my major motivation. i don't want to get into buying and selling and watching the market, i just want to build leverage through capital to get more leverage for pursuits of more interest to me, repeat until dead.
nuh, maybe march/april. sorta lost interest, might just get a stocker to tool about in and get it setup for classic adelaide.
Here's a pic of a young guy who waited for capital to become easier to aquire and for no changes in his life style Image Unavailable, Please Login
haha no that's my point, i'm finally at a stage where i can get into it without resorting to living off bread n drippin.
