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Replace Self Leveling Suspension with something modern - need steps

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by MathKernelKing, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. MathKernelKing

    MathKernelKing Karting

    Jun 16, 2015
    76
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Noah
    Could anyone who has replaced their self leveling suspension with something modern provide a list of specific parts purchased (with part numbers) along with possible specialized work done to make it happen? Is there any chance there's a kit that could be purchased to install end to end, or is this a very custom job? I've seen some past threads with bits and pieces of information, but no end to end explanation with list of parts and necessary steps. I would like to have my self leveling suspension completely replaced with something new and am contracting with Custom Alignment in Mountain View to get it done.
     
  2. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula Junior
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    Oct 22, 2013
    952
    SF Bay Area, CA
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    Ruben
    Hi Noah, sorry I'm not able to help on hints of how to do this but the Custom Alignment guys are awesome. Keep us posted on how it goes!

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  3. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    Bruce
    The search function on this site has little to be desired! You type a string of words contained in quotes & it separates the words, doesn't look for the string specifically.

    I remember someone doing this & I believe it was with QA1 shocks but can I find it??…No!
    I do remember some small parts made & sourced to attach the top of the shock to the frame.
    Koni does have replacement coil-overs but are not self leveling, Koni #82 1825SP2

    KONI NA | Classic
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
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    I would do without the self levelling feature like most cars on the road today. Why couldn't you buy two more shocks like the forward ones and 4 coils from Eibach to get the height and spring rate you want? I thought T-rutlands sold a kit to convert to coils.
     
  5. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    #5 blkprlz, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  6. OttoB

    OttoB Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2013
    615
    Palm Beach, FL
    I did it in mine with the QA1's but you have to be fortunate enough to have someone who can fabricate the new custom mounts and be able to design/calculate the new geometric variances involved... Post # 102 out of my build thread below discusses it and I actually changed the spring rates since then and added 2 more springs to the rears, so 6 in all which was not fully detailed then. It is not overly difficult as it can be done and I'm very satisfied with the results.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/365-gt4-2-2-400-412/481810-my-story-46567-a-6.html

    PM if you want to pursue this - I have the invoices with the part numbers.
     
  7. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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  8. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
    7,223
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    There's a bit posted on the later hydraulic self levelling system, but how does the earlier version work?
     
  9. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Mine is a series 1 (long front grill, fogs behind it) without the valve connected to the rear sway bar, which also determines if your spare is face down or face up, which then leads to brief case or banana shaped soft tool kit. Series 2 comes with a reservoir under the hood. My understanding is koni will have nothing to do with rebuilding the series 1 design so you're on your own if you stick with it. Mine looks like an air shock vs the series 2 design that has lines running from the front to the back. The series 1 shocks apparently don't do what they were intended to do so I have no desire to retain them and the later ones suck in a different way. And I'm not sure if my babbling helped in any way.
     
  10. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
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    Patrick
    No, mate, that's a help! I'm planning on junking it anyway, but it would be handy to know how it all works before I change anything. I've been doing a rolling resto on the QV for 7 years now, and I'm still not finished (but close), so I'm just going to look over the car, and fix/modify what's needed as I find it (car arrives next week).

    Thanks
     
  11. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
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    BTW, the spare tyre/toolkit bit is interesting, I'll have to check it out!
     
  12. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    421
    Australia
    #12 Al Campbell, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I replaced the load levellers on my series 1 400i (series 2 will need a different top mount) a while back with the coil-over option being sold. These are great but not cheap. They made it really easy to setup the rear suspension height to the exact dimensions in the manual. But as I was after shocks for 3 cars all up I searched for a cheaper option for the other two.

    I purchased the shocks from Turner Motorsport.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/

    82 1825SP2 KONI Classic (Red) Ferrari 365 1973 1975

    http://www.allshocks.com/CAR/FERRARI/1973/365%20GT4


    The coil over parts were purchased from TrueChoice Koni Racing Services.

    https://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/

    Individual Coil Over Kit Parts
    55mm ID Steel Sleeve with 60mm x 1.25" OD Threads (long enough to cut in half for each shock)

    Individual Coil Over Kit Parts
    60mm Steel Spring Seat for 2.5" Springs

    Individual Coil Over Kit Parts
    60mm Steel Lock Ring

    Hyperco Springs 2.5" I.D. - 10" Lengths × 2 2.5" Springs - 10" Lengths:
    10" Length - 150 lbs.

    The top spring mount does need to be machined to suit the spring but is a very easy job for someone with a lathe. This is then identical to the more expensive coil-over units that are being sold.

    Cheers Al
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Series 1 had a face down spare with a plastic holder to accept the brief case kit in the back of the down-facing wheel. Series 2 they added a large indent in the tire well to provide room for the suspension height valve below linked to the sway bar. This meant the spare had to be face up and the brief case no longer fit in the wheel.
     
  14. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Al,

    So each rear spring was 10" and 150lbs?
     
  15. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    421
    Australia
    No. Just the replacement for the load leveller. The other one is the standard spring but uses the same damper/shock 82 1825SP2. I just looked at the price of the shocks on the link I put up & they are about $100US over what I paid (I did buy 10 shocks off them though).

    Cheers Al
     
  16. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Ta. Hopefully mine is OK and I can concentrate on other things first.
     
  17. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I have an 84 here that drops an inch in about a half and hour, its the series 2 of course. Takes less than 30 seconds to level once the engine is running.

    My series 1 never changes nor does it really adjust (or sag) to a load in the back such as my kids.
     
  18. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,221
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Rutlands sells the kit for the older cars not the newer. The top of the four shocks changed. Someone did a revision for the later cars. I have print out somewhere; it cost quite a bit.
    Ken
     
  19. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,785
    North Pole AK
    Would your guy be willing to sell the mounts? Most people could find a good shop to weld them on but most probably couldn't get them made. Not sure if there's a market for them but I'm just trying to think outside of the box a little bit.
     
  20. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    I noticed that you mentioned Michel many times throughout the thread but not his company or location…kind of curious why?
     
  21. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior
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    Oct 15, 2011
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    Lincoln, MA
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    Christian J
    Is there a concern that the new (rear) spring in the kit is 150# and the existing (front) springs are rated by the factory at 100#? Don't the Boxers have matched springs and they have a very similar rear suspension design? Eibach and Hyperco have so many options it would be easy to pick your rate at oem or uprated.
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Boxer rear springs are a matched set. Fronts are different of course with one extra turn on a boxer.

    Has nobody tried to buy two more forward position shocks and come up with a set of 4 matching springs? A set of boxer rears could be the ticket. I have a bunch of boxer shocks here, I'll see how they compare.
     
  23. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior
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    Oct 15, 2011
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    Christian J
    The Rutlands kit includes a pair of modified forward position 82 series Koni shocks. I have that kit and modified the forward position shocks to accept an eibach spring (see pics on my profile page). The WSM has damping curves for the 400 shocks - I wonder if the Boxers have a similar curve? Can you measure your Boxer shocks and compare to this:
    Length extended 18 3/8"
    Length compressed 14" to 1"bump stop
    Stroke 5.375"
    Eyelets upper 12mm ID x 45mm wide
    Lower 14mm ID x45 mm wide
     
  24. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #24 Newman, Jul 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Boxer rears use a larger ID for the lower bolt than the upper so the bushings are different but the OD's are all the same. So bushings don't concern me. If it meant 4 boxer shocks to get 4 equal spring perches and 4 eibachs to get the rate and height I would be good with that. New boxer shocks can be had cheap but they are cosmetically different than the one I posted and have a removable lower perch. That wont matter in a 400 application but it does on a BB for judged events.
     

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