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Replacement carbon ceramic discs for challenge stradale

Discussion in '360/430' started by trainwrex, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia
    Hi Guys,

    I took my challenge stradale in for a service and check up and found all carbon ceramic brake disc have cracks on the backside where they mount to the hat. The front face of the discs themselves look fine with no appearance of cracking.

    I think i need to replace all 4 discs. I attach pics of one of the discs to show you the point of where the cracks have occured.

    Does anyone have alternate discs that can be used as a replacement from brembo at all. I have been quoted 25K AUD to replace them which is crazy money.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    3,344
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Might be worth contacting Brembo and suggesting the way they cracked could be a manufacturing defect and what they have to say about it... Shouldn't really crack like this if fixing hardware is torqued correctly at the factory!
     
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  3. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia
    It is very odd mate as all 4 discs are exactly the same. The problem being the discs are original so are era 2005. The replacement value is astronomical.
     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    3,344
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Keep the hats and find replacement donuts from another marque. Significantly cheaper option if you can find equivalent sizes. I recall from memory they where 380mm fronts and maybe 350mm rear (sorry fuzzy memory!).

    .. It's tricky to remove the mounting hardware (they sometimes almost weld together with the heat) and you need to re-torque them like you would a cylinder head but it is possible.
     
  5. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,080
    Uk
    There is a company in the north west of England who make CCM discs, around Liverpool i think and cheaper than OEM
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,080
    Uk
    #6 mike32, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  7. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,080
    Uk
    I looked on Eurospares web site and they have both front and rears in stock from £1750 each, depends on your model as they are listing a few different part numbers.
    Comes out at $Au 12 600 on my sums at 1.8 to the pound for the cheapest
     
  8. CarbonDan

    CarbonDan Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2017
    130
    PNW
    How many miles are on the car? It is very surprising to see that. As pointed out earlier, they are torqued from the factory and shouldn't ever need to be touched again so it's disconcerting to see such uniform cracks.
     
  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    3,344
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Just hope it wasn't done maliciously by some dealer trying to get money in a unscrupulous way!
     
  10. blueTT

    blueTT Rookie

    May 16, 2004
    25
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Winston
    It looks like it’s the 1st version of the hats. I think CS’s had 2 different versions of the disc design. Maybe someone with more knowledge can provide more info on the differences??
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,080
    Uk
    Eurospares are listing a few different pt nos
     
  12. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    Thanks mate I’ll look into it. I’m even thinking about the corvette replacement discs as they look they will be a direct replacement and are made by Brembo
     
  13. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    Plus Aussie tax prolly be near 20k.. unjust imo
     
  14. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    The car has 35k miles on it.

    the brake pads have little wear and the face of the discs have no cracks or marks out of them so I don’t understand how it could of happened. No track work just cafe lapper pretty much. Most of the km was from previous owner in UK. I’ve done about 12,000km since I’ve had it for last 8 years

    Do you think I should talk with Brembo about this? My dealer sent pics to Ferrari Australia who said they had to be replaced but didn’t give a reason as to why this has happened
     
  15. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    I’m wondering if the re-design was due to cracking of the discs? Sounds plausible
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 Formula 3

    May 13, 2016
    2,080
    Uk
    These are different to my 430, the pins in the picture- are they a bolt with a nut on the reverse side or is that a series of riviets holding the disc to the carrier. Do you have a pic of the other side ?.
    If the part that is showing the cracks is Alloy and the pin/ bolt is steel they may have corroded where they meet, so the tight clearence has become a bigger clearence. Every time you brake they are moving relative to each other. UK roads with winter salt gritting would not have helped.
    No point fitting non ferrari parts as new owner would knock off price to bring back to oem
     
  17. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    The discs are at the dealer. I will try and go have a look at them in the next few days. Ill have a look into replacements and see what i can come up with oem
     
  18. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,504
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I wonder if you have the first generation mounting system there. Brembo redesigned to improve disc location - the later type allows fora greater difference in thermal expansion between disc and bell.

    If you can provide a pic of the front face I can confirm.
     
  19. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
    1,504
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Found a pic of the rear of the first gen discs. You do have the later type.

    I'm inclined to think material defect or over-torqued fasteners. I do know it is difficult to achieve uniform quality of manufacture of the CCM discs - hence why the weight of two discs if the same type can differ so much.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    Thanks for letting me know its the newer design, i will go the dealer this week to examine them in person. Its hard to work out what it could be but all 4 have the same issue. Whether Ferrari will come to the party and supply discounted discs would be helpful considering there is no wear on the face of the discs.
     
  21. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    3,344
    isle Of Man
    Full Name:
    360trev
    I've never seen this happen before on any CCM'S I've dismantled, even on track abused Challenge car examples. The only way I could see it occurring is for a few reasons.

    1. Manufacturing defect - hence suggesting getting in touch with Brembo to get their opinion (and hopefully good will)

    2. Someone previously dismantled them ( e.g for detailing purposes ) and then didn't follow correct process to torque them back down which is done like doing a cylinder head, gradually and in sequence.

    3. ...Or maliciously to deliberately make them fail so they need to be replaced at great cost. Overtightening the fasteners will result in this happening btw and one of the only reasons why it would happen with the cracking shown. This should just not happen, ever, like this....

    How long have you owned the vehicle and do you trust your dealership?
     
  22. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia

    Thanks mate, yeh Im going to get in contact with Ferrari and Brembo and see what they say.

    They have never been taken off as far as im aware and are original to the vehicle going back to all service records there is no evidence that these were ever touched in any manner.

    Ive owned the car ~8 years now and have always taken to same dealer i dont have a reason to not trust them. If they were taken off and overtightened when put back on would this cause them to crack? Or would they crack after a certain point in time once driven?
     
  23. trainwrex

    trainwrex Formula Junior

    Sep 15, 2011
    279
    Perth, Australia
    I went and inspected the car on the hoist and all 4 have the same issue. You would not notice if you didn’t take off the discs.

    I’ve sent Brembo an email and waiting on a contact for Ferrari Australia so I can get in touch with them.

    IMO for all 4 to be like that to be there is some sort of fault either in the manufacturing process or installation procedure.

    I’ll let you guys know any updates I get
     
  24. zipperkarting

    zipperkarting Karting

    Jun 10, 2014
    214
    Jersey & France
    Full Name:
    paul troalic
    Hi, any idea where this company has gone as this email address does not work.
    Many thanks
    Paul
     
  25. Jgivoo

    Jgivoo Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2016
    328
    New Jersey

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