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Replacement diff carrier and quill shaft

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Philwozza, May 12, 2012.

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  1. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    Phil Worrall
    #1 Philwozza, May 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As described in a series of earlier posts, I’m looking at various suppliers in the UK and Europe who have the ability to manufacture a replacement diff to suit the flat 12 cars of all years, 365’s, 512’s and all the Testarossa derivatives. I have had three prototype diffs manufactured which will soon be fitted to Testarossa’s and 512TR’s in Europe, UK and Australia.

    Initial price indications were given and I moved forward to have a short batch made. I was apprehensive of the originally quoted price given the complexity of the Ferrari factory diff and as it turns out, my apprehension was well founded.

    In the end I had to supply the company with a factory Testarossa diff which they stripped down and have been able to replicate the internals 100%. The external casing had to be modified and a far superior material used to obtain sufficient strength in what is actually a quite small housing. The housing has been manufactured from billet material and the end cap is fitted using 12 recessed cap screws, rather than big awkward bolts as the factory have used.

    The work and quality of the materials chosen in the diff have pushed the price up substantially, but those members interested in a total replacement diff will still be very pleasantly surprised if they PM me for further information. This is a total drop in diff replacement. A billet housing with brand new cross shafts, spider gears and clutch plates. It’s not just a housing that you transfer your own innards into. Simply bolt your existing crown wheel to this new diff and fit it like any other replacement diff.

    The materials and quality of workmanship are second to none. The company offers a lifetime warranty on the diff and also offers owners the possibility of various setups depending upon the chosen usage and driving style. The manufacturer has been making performance and racing diffs mainly for European vehicles for 30 plus years. They run out of a large modern machine shop in the UK and have experience in building differentials for a range of Ferrari cars including 512TR’s and M’s.

    I believe that in combination with the performance quill shafts available from Robert (Uzz32soarer) in Australia, and the UK differential that I can supply, we now have the ability to rectify the factory short comings in the drivetrains of the flat 12’s with total parts supplied for substantially under $5k USD.

    I have posted a FerrariAd in the parts section for anyone interested.

    P.

    .
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  2. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 World Champ

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    #2 Turbopanzer, May 12, 2012
    Aren't machinists wonderful people. Such beautiful work and best of all..........(wait for it) ...........Its better!!! :D
     
  3. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    #3 Philwozza, May 12, 2012
    I've got to say that it is a piece or art. What I didn't know was that tolerances are down to the micron level :) When I was an apprentice I was proud to be able to machine to 1/2 a thou tolerance, now these machines are making a 1/2 thou seem like a country mile :D

    Well made with the finest quality steel and best practice heat treatments......

    P
     
  4. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #4 Spasso, May 12, 2012
    Phil,
    Great news on the carriers. Owners world wide will appreciate that there are more options.

    Are Robert's replacement quill shafts built to standard OEM spec or are they built to the upgraded 512M configuration?

    Also, can you tell me if the carrier housing you have pictured is "case-hardened"? If so do you know what the process was?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    #5 Philwozza, May 12, 2012
    First, I hope that Robert will kick in here as I think the new quill shaft is NOT to the 512M spec, the 512M spec eats the gearbox primary shaft splines, see a recent thread by Uzz32soarer.
    The new spec has torsional flexibility meaning that while it is ultimately strong it also has the torsional damping requirement to minimise the stress to the gearbox primary shaft. ROBERT your expertise is needed here.

    Spasso, the differential carrier housing IS case-hardened but I don't know the exact details of the process at this time. If you need to know the details please PM me or send email to [email protected] and I will get you the actual material and hardening specification


    HTH
    P
     
  6. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    #6 uzz32soarer, May 12, 2012
    Here's the link to the details of the shaft that I have made in Australia.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305799

    What a great combination, an Aussie updated quill shaft and a brand new diff from Forza components for under five grand.

    Have them both fitted at your next major and drive away never having to worry again about smashing your diff to bits or snapping a quill shaft.

    Shame this wasn't available last year before mine and Mel's catastrophic failures. Both mine and Mel's repair bills will easily go four times that.
     
  7. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #7 Spasso, May 12, 2012
    I feel your pain, mine stays parked until fixed!

    Thanks for the link
     
  8. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #8 Spasso, May 12, 2012
    Email sent to the address above.
    Thanks Phil.
    DJ
     
  9. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

    May 2, 2008
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    Dean C
    #9 deangpsx8, May 12, 2012
    Hi Rob,

    Thought your Range Rover was still sunk in mud.

    Quill shaft already updated a few months ago...The new diff is going in next weekend.

    I'll advise the results and post some pics of a hopefully good diff that came out of mine.

    So there maybe a good original quill shaft and diff available soon on the second hand market.

    Anyone interested pm me.
     
  10. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #10 Spasso, May 12, 2012
    So, after reading the other threads on quill shaft installations on various TR's over the last year, what kind of feedback are you getting so far.?

    I imagine there really won't be any definitive data for a number of years and miles though.......................
    I will not be surprised when I get mine apart that there will be signs of twisted splines and rub marks.
     
  11. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

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    #11 uzz32soarer, May 13, 2012
    I've not seen a quill shaft yet with no marks on it, either from twised splines, or more often, rub marks towards the centre of the shaft where it contacts the alloy bearing carrier.

    Feedback from the blokes that purchased the first run of shafts has been great. Two went to Texas and into a Testa and a 512TR. One went to Queensland into a 365, Sydney Testarossa, Boston 512BBi and my car.

    They all said that they were a perfect fittment, and no harshness or jarring at all from the driveline.

    What more can be said. Two are still in 512M race cars in Europe and havent been changed in years.
     
  12. deangpsx8

    deangpsx8 Formula Junior

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    #12 deangpsx8, May 13, 2012
    and my car too Rob...
     
  13. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #13 Spasso, May 13, 2012
    Thanks for the info Rob
     
  14. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #14 Melvok, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pics of my quill shaft : marks from the remnants of my crownwheel..... :(

    My enhancement: the hole in which this shaft fits in the alloy carrier is now widened 2 mm in diameter ....

    We hope to receive the 3 sets of C&P by the end of the week ................. after 18 weeks of waiting (it was in the contract) ....

    IF so, the first 365 gearbox will be made (40-50 hrs of work); after that one mine is scheduled...

    Will keep you posted by then ....
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  15. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    #15 Philwozza, May 17, 2012
    Well Rob while I am going to change mine as a preventative measure there are in fact NO MARKS on my quill shaft at all. Perhaps thats why I get 30 to the gallon :)

    P
     
  16. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

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    #16 uzz32soarer, May 17, 2012
    Hahahaha.............down a hill with Linda pushing I reckon >>>>>>>>
     
  17. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    #17 uzz32soarer, May 21, 2012
    Tf308 asks the question:

    Assuming you buy the updated shaft and trans carriers, how much does the labor cost to have them installed?

    If you can pull the motor yourself, can you also do these?


    There's no reason why you couldn't install these yourself, but the shimming of the diff to set up the correct bearing preload and the correct ring / pinion backlash is enough to put even the pro's to the test.

    The grunt work isn't hard, but I'd take mine to a specialist once it's out of the car and mobile. You will still save a fortune removing and replacing the engine yourself anyway.
     
  18. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #18 Melvok, May 21, 2012
    Exactly !!

    Only a VERY good gb builder will be able to install/shimm our F diff ... don't even think about doing that yourself .... :)

    If things go wrong you will pay the price triple ....... would you take that chance ?
     
  19. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

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    #19 tf308, May 21, 2012
    Can you provide the name of a gb specialist that has done this in the US? I think that if the group knew who would do this....you may have more people interested.
     
  20. 302Tim

    302Tim Formula 3

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    #20 302Tim, May 21, 2012
    I have no personal experience with him but have seen reference to a repair shop in CA called FAI (POC Rod Drew) 935 Sunset Dr., Costa Mesa, CA, 92627 (949) 631-6373. Not much help to you on the east coast--I'm sure there are others closer to you.
     
  21. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    #21 Philwozza, May 21, 2012
    I agree with all that Rob, its a big saving if you can get the engine out and the transmission to an expert. I am fortunate that one of my colleagues is a gearbox designer and for the price of a case of beer my new diff will be fitted for me. The beer comes AFTER the fitting and I will of course do my best to help him finish it all off:D


    P
     
  22. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    #22 Melvok, May 21, 2012
    Do give him that case BEFORE Phill !! :)

    The message is imo:

    Engine-out: check the gb also !
    Diff: renew the oem weak diff a.s.a.p. to prevent great costs another time.
    Installation: leave this very precious work to an expert ....
     
  23. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    #23 uzz32soarer, Dec 22, 2012
    I have a new batch of quill shafts hot off the machines. Actually the batch was finished today and emails have gone out to those parties interested in procuring one to upgrade their factory parts.

    If you are looking for a new quill shaft, drop me a line to [email protected] but be quick there are only a couple left from this batch.
     

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