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Replacement fuel injection system for '84 Mondial

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by surfdoc37, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. surfdoc37

    surfdoc37 Karting

    Nov 19, 2004
    124
    St. Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Mark M.
    Having all kinds of trouble, essentially with even fuel delivery to all cylinders, in a '84 Mondial. Resulting in fried cats and failed emmissions tests. Anyhow, the injectors have been replaced, now moving to replace a more proximal and quite expensive part which I can't name, but apparently basically splits flow?

    Anyhow, wondering, first off, what it should cost to essentially replace the entire fuel injection system with new, stock components.

    Second, wondering if, as lon as I'm sinking a couple grand into the fuel injection system, if there is a more modern setup I should consider to replace the stock?
     
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  3. tifosi013

    tifosi013 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 5, 2005
    13
    Fresno, Cal.
    Full Name:
    Larry Powell
    Surfdoc37;

    I also have a '84 Mondial QV. I found a very good book on Bosch jetronic systems at the local foreign parts store. It's called Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management, www.bentleypublishers.com, ISBN 0-8376-0300-5. It is written for the "mortal man" in common language.

    Before you spend a bunch, it may be worth the $ 30.00 book price just for the troubleshooting section alone. I know it helped my understanding of the K-Lambda Jetronic system we have. The parts should be available through a Bosch F.I. dealer, not necessarily the car manufacturer. A good multi-meter and a long 6mm allen wrench may all you need to solve much of your problem.

    A vacuum leak or clogged fuel filter will cause uneven running, possible fried CATS, and unsteady fuel delivery as the Lambda electronic unit chases its' tail trying to keep up with the engine mixture demands.

    Injection system replacement would be illegal in my state. Maybe Missouri is different. In any case, I think it would make the Mondial metric wheel problem a "day at the beach" in comparison.

    LP
     
  4. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Sounds like you need to find a mechanic that knows what they are doing instead...
     
  5. Tim the Stick

    Tim the Stick Rookie

    Mar 3, 2005
    31
    Taylor, MI
    Full Name:
    Tim Wakeling
    Basicly, my suggestion is simple. If it's NOT digital fuel injection, it sucks.

    I NEVER liked mechanical injection. From having a 1964 Vette Hydrolock itself when 3 injectors stuck open and spun her over and bent 3 rods, to working for 4 years at Mercedes-Benz basicaly tuning the SAME Bosch fuel system components the F-cars use, to playing with them again at my own shop on my own time, my own way.

    You know what I've discovered? The Bosch mechanical system's butt sucks canal water.

    My suggestion IS costly, but in my opinion the fuel and relaibility savings would be LESS costly over the years, AND it's transferable to ANY car at ANY time with a re-wire.

    I suggest the AEM PEMS standalone management computer, a set of RC injectors, fabricated fuel rails and lines, and an aeromotive fuel pump, and fab a wiring harness and switchbox.

    Basic parts costs:

    AEM PEMS (programable engine management system): $1,600-$2,000
    RC Injectors: $65.00-$100.00 each
    Lines and rails: $100-$1,000 depending on what you use and how good of a fabricator you are
    Aeromotive pump: $450.00
    Wiring parts: $300-$400

    Basicly, you're looking at about $3,000-$4,000 in parts, and then either try and wire it all yourself, or get a pro. Note, I did NOT say get a HACK to TRY to install it, get someone who KNOWS how to do it.

    After it's ALL siad and done, you have real time datalogging, real time Wideband O2 sensors (if you so choose, it's an addition to the system at additional cost) and more reliability than any other digital system I've tried, INCLUDING OEM Honda systems. I've installed several of these, one into a Lotus Super 7 with an S-2000 driveline. It's my personal favorite, it's WELL worth the money, has MORE options than you can shake a stick at, and is easily tunable in "auto-tune" mode with the wideband O2 sensors. It's very dyno friendly, street friendly, and self tune friendly.

    Overall, it'll cost about the same price in PARTS as replacing ALL of your fuel system. But you'll get better mileage, and get better driveability.

    The killer is setting the system up. It comes BLANK, meaning to can make it fit a V12, a flat 10, a 4 banger, a small block chevy, WHATEVER. It's completely progtammable, both on timing maps and on fuel curves. It doesn't care WHAT it runs. If it burns gas and has sparkplugs, this system can be set up to run it.

    It has independant cylinder trim, independant injector AND timing/coil pack control for up to 12 channels, independant COIL PACK control if you want to toss out the distributors, dual channel distributor multi spark discharge control, 1, 2, and 3 rev limiter controls, turbo/supercharger maps, nitrous maps, cold start maps, idle control adjustment for timing/fuel trim/cylinder mix, load sensing timing and fuel adjustment maps, alititude control, multi-ReMAP on the fly command, ....... I think you get the point. It's AMAZING.

    If you're thinking about tossing the old system and going digital.... Go AEM.

    If you're lost, call me at the shop. I get about 3-4 calls a day asking about "what do I need for my fuel management system?" I can explain, and send you to some sites and/or give you some downloads of "how it works" etc... When it comes to fuel system stuff... Hate to say it, but I'm King-DoDo.

    Tim "the Stick" Wakeling
    Unleaded Racing
    (734)-285-2928
     
  6. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    I would have to agree. You should not need to replace your whole FI system, but you do need someone qualified to troubleshoot what you have. With all due respect to Tim the Stick, his set-up sounds like the hot ticket, but you will be replacing a system that is pretty reliable.
     
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  8. Jagbuff

    Jagbuff Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,265
    Site of US F1 Race!
    Full Name:
    Franck
    I think that Tim's suggestion is good if you plan to keep the car a long time(recup the investment) and are not worried about resale and or authenticity. I mentioned resale because the greatest majority of buyers see modifications a sum zero or negative.

    One word of caution, this is like remodelling a kitchen - parts are only 40-50% of the equation, by the time you get a the custom parts made to mount the fuel rail, injectors, etc ..a pro to install it and troubleshoot.. some dyno time to get the fuel maps tweaked you looking at a pretty handsome chunk of change that will allow a couple of hefty repairs bills of your couple mechanical system.

    Also I would recommed you go to someone that knows Ferraris and have done this kind of modification, Norwoods (site sponsor) is a good place to start - they carry Motec and put those in all the cars the turbocharge. Motec has all the function that AEM has and then some - they are little more pricey though, Norwood will also know what the wiring harness needs to look like and probably have the fuel maps that will get you running...
     

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