Replacing all relays on electrical board

Bosch has a lot of numbers for the same or nearly same relays. Combine that with the fact that I seldom see cars that have not had one or more relays replaced, often with the wrong one. There are differences in different years and different markets so be certain you are using the correct information to start with and be aware that some of the original numbers may no longer be available and replace with a relay that is correct in function.

Bosch relays used to be nearly a life time part but those days are long gone. Relay malfunctions have become very common.

 

As Brian said, Bosch sells the same or nearly the same relay under different P/N's. To complicate things further, many of the relays they used to sell for our cars are no long manufactured and have been superceded, so you really have to study the function of the relay and its specifications, then choose the one that best suits. Be aware that simple 4 or 5 pin relays are not all alike......

In our interchangeable parts thread (the sticky at the top of this subforum), several of us have researched this and provided the updated Bosch P/N's, and as far as I know, they work well.

 

This is all complicated by the fact that TE Connectivity (Tyco Electronics Ltd until 2011) bought Bosch's relay business and now sells TE Connectivity, Tyco, Bosch, and Bosch-Tyco relays.

 

This just proves your head may be German but your soul is Italian!!

 

I see far more German cars (usually Mercedes, BMW's, or VW's) on flatbeds than any other import.

 

Not sure what German cars you are talking about but that certainly does not resemble our E55. It built like a tinker toy. What a toilet.

Buy the way. All the electrical crap you are complaining about? Its German. Ferrari had far better electrical systems when they were Italian.

 

Master race my ass.

 

True enough, but you don't see many American, Japanese, or Korean cars on flatbeds, and they far outnumber the German cars.

I'm not sure whether Montezemolo helped or hurt the marque's reliability. He certainly found ways of making them cheaper, but IMHO he would have been better off teaming up with a Japanese supplier of "systems", like Denso, in lieu of Bosch.

Sorry to get a little OT here.

 

I'm glad he is gone.

 

Totally un needed. It is cool in there compared to where those components are designed to operate. Heat damage is a result of resistance from poor quality connectors and is far too localized to be helped by butchering the car. It is not from component or ambient heat. I see that recommendation from time to time and it is very misguided. It is from people who have no idea of what happens or why. I just went over this with a Lamborghini engine management ecu that quit. It is located in the air conditioned cabin, just like your board. We measured the heat of the eprom on an 80 degree day and found it was running at 105. It was designed for 230.

355 put the Motronic ECU's just above the cats and they have zero heat related issues. Corvette at one time in their Mercury Marine motors had the entire electronic package under the intake manifold in the valley of the motor. No problem there either.

Do not let the keyboard warriors suggest silly modifications to systems that the automakers designed for.

 

I'm not sure how one would come to the diagnostic conclusion that all relays replaced would solve the problem or prevent future. You could be right and you could be lucky or not. It is also possible to rejuvenate old relays by taking them apart cleaning them and cleaning the contacting surfaces. New is best in theory. Consider the fuse box itself too. That is just another piece of fantastic Ferrari engineering. No one could defend what they did there. Open it and you will see for yourself. SRI has a fusebox rebuild program. I have spaghetti wired them too old school bread board style with solder. It's ugly but has worked over several models for decades. I did a thread on them here if you are ever interested. There are many wiring weak links. Once you do some sorting you can have near Japanese reliability. If you go that deep consider a discussion cribbj and I had on getting the load off the fuse box of the cooling fans. When you look at the fan connector I can just about bet you dinner you will see why.

 

Carl, is Dave Helms doing 550 fuse boxes now too?

I know that Ferrparts has (or had) a rebuild program for them.

 

Sri did a few years ago for sure. I do not know about now. Dave was the inovator. Dealing with fuse boxes was just another part of his reliability enhancement like his gold connector kit. While controversial the concept benefit is undeniable. Those that dislike gold are going with alternate pins but copying the concept and process.

 

The relays are known to be junk and it is not a matter of working properly or not working at all. Replacing them all proactively is not an unusual or ill advised step.

Repairing them is a total waste of time.

 

How can that be? Bosch is a tier 1 supplier and German precision infallible...

 

Bosch relays are not made by Bosch, nor is it German.


There are no quality relays made anymore. By anyone, not for automotive use. Globalization has seen to that.


When the choice is junk product A or junk product B it makes little difference whose name is on the package.

 

My post was tongue in cheek. Personally I'm not impressed by Bosch. But your statement raises an interesting question since you are on the front lines seeing a professional's number of varied cars of all ages.

Globalization means chinese to me which is any number of four letter words. I have not owned a Ferrari newer than 2001 before the infection of mass globalization and I can't remember the last time I have had a bad relay in any of my prior 6 ferraris or the last time I replaced a relay on a friends Ferrari (also older Ferraris).

Is the cr@p relay phenomenon a new issue where you are seeing longer service lives from old relays in old Ferraris and increasing failure in new "globalized" Bosch relays?

 

China, India, fledgling third world democracies. Anyone and everyone who has near slave labor employment opportunities and exercises no limitations on how low a quality they are will to go to get a contract. You know, like the people who make $600 I phones for a dollar each. Anyone ever try to make one of those last 20 years? For $600 I think it should do that.


In my opinion the last good Bosch relay had a metal housing. After that it is a matter of degree. Mini relays with plastic housings are all in pretty old cars at this point. In 99 or so they switched over to Micro relays and there has never been a good one made by anyone ever. During the Montezemelo reign of terror Ferrari also left an Italian wiring supplier that was really pretty good and went to Delphi who has perfected cheap harnesses. That was when the problems started. With cars overloaded with digital electronics and the worst power supply relays known to automotive history on every electrical malfunction I have adopted just throwing a new set of relays at entire systems with a high degree of success. I have found a great number of O2 related CELS to just be poor, inconsistant power supply. More relays. It is not even that uncommon to have something as simple as a horn not being very loud caused by a bad relay. We have put more and fussier electronics in cars than ever before with legislation requiring monitoring systems and holding them to unrealistically narrow acceptable operating ranges and using lower quality parts than ever before to make it all work. No big deal if you throw away your car every few years and get another but that is not the Ferrari world. Cars....all cars really are only intended to last a few years and because of the abundance of low quality electronics in the cars it is more and more becoming a reality.


Before anyone believes this is only Ferrari ask yourself why Mercedes Benz wound up a few years ago with a whole bunch of cars made with harnesses made from reclaimed copper that was not properly washed and the copper just turned to green dust inside the intact insulation? It was not because they used a supplier known for uncompromisingly high quality.

 

Just so happens I also just ordered relays to replace all on the fuse board of my car. I had 1 fail last year, another just last week. After seeing this topic pop up I decided to open up one of the bad relays to see what's what. I pried apart the contacts and notice a large corroded or "dirty" spot on the contacts. I assume this is the problem, causing a poor contact. I also notice that relays that have gone bad have a discoloured prong #30. I pulled a few other relays and noticed no discolouration on prong #30, but a few had slightly discoloured. Maybe they are next to go?

After 2 relays, I started to worry about other relays dying on me and especially for something more important than lights, maybe a fuel pump while far a way from home? So I decided to replace all and keep a few spares in the car. Even if you don't replace them, never hurts to have a couple spares in the car.
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Terribly discolored prongs are just a fact of life on the micro relays. No properly made electrical system should have discoloration from heat on its connectors but now it is the norm.