Replacing bulkhead insulation | FerrariChat

Replacing bulkhead insulation

Discussion in '308/328' started by Gloria Giulio, Oct 5, 2016.

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  1. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    I am considering what to do about the crumbling bulkhead insulation on a Euro 328. One option suggested to me is to remove it but not replace it. It was also suggested in another thread that US cars did not have foam insulation in the first place. Is that correct, and can I just take it off and leave the bulkhead bare, or is it better to put something in its place?

    GG
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,961
    Isle of man- uk
    Look up car insulation uk they do different grades depending on the temp, a good one is listed for 180 C
    Various thickness 6, 10 mm self adhesive. Not expensive so might be ideal
     
  3. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,320
    UK
    I think the US cars have another metal skin there though. Underneath your foam (on a Euro) car the metalwork will look like a dog's breakfast.

    If you are going to replace it then it needs to be with some silicone based foam - nothing else will stand the heat from the front manifold.

    You can do it with the engine in the car with a bit of patience. You need to drain the fuel tanks and move them back (which means disconnecting the cross-over pipe) in order to get the foam behind the tanks. Silicone foam is quite dense so it doesn't want to be to thick other wise you won't be able to re-install the tanks.
     
  4. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    I will look out for silicone foam then. The replacement is not a job I am competent to carry out myself, although the removal of the old material might be within my capabilities. My mechanic has talked about removing the engine in order to replace foam front and back. That is a lot of man-hours but maybe working on the foam with the engine in would be too. Are there other jobs that we can do with the engine out?

    GG

    PSS. Mike32, I looked at the insulation uk website but I could not find any temperature ratings for the foams.
     
  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,961
    Isle of man- uk
    You need to select the tab for the spec, it is there, send them an e mail for info as they may have supplied your 328 before
     
  6. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    12,083
    FRANCE
  7. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Great, thanks for the thread link.

    GG
     
  8. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Mike32, can you give me a link? I think I must be on the wrong website as I can find nothing described as silicone and no technical tabs.

    GG
     
  9. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2010
    8,173
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto Mantovani
    get rid of everything: just spray some light grey paint or just place there a flexible aluminium sheet

    ciao
     
  10. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,961
    Isle of man- uk
  11. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    Thanks for the website link.

    GG
     
  12. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Ordinary stuff from car soundproofing suppliers wont work, it will not withstand the heat as its only an inch or so from the exhaust.

    The UK source I used was www.foamtechniques.co.uk
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,961
    Isle of man- uk
    Did u look at the web site as they do thermal types.
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    What I use is a closed cell foam, with skin, the trade name is ArmaFlex, or something close to that spelling.

    Do be careful if exposed to extreme heat, but if Ferrari used that cr@ppy open cell foam OEM, ArmaFlex is better for things like radiator hood seals, A/C wrap (it's industry use) and so forth. Being a closed cell structure, it will not wick up water.
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Cuts like butter, using the bread knife you stole from the last gf....:D :D

    Really flexible material..
     
  16. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    3,148
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    You might also consider Aerogel which is a spin-off from Space Shuttle thermal tiles and is now available as flexible blankets:
    BuyAerogel.com | Blankets

    (I have no experience with this stuff, but it seems like a good idea.)
     
  17. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    There is NO NEED to take out the engine. I have done it with engine in, as mentioned before. It could be combined with an engine-in cam belt change and its not a huge amount of extra work. If doing it again I would remove the RH tank as I did before rather then just pull it back. That also makes timing belt access a doddle. Dont allow him to take the engine out for this! There are no other jobs which benefit, as these cars are designed such that everything can pretty much be done with it in.

    I also did it without a lift. If there are 2 people working, and a lift, it would be easy.

    Foam such as Armaflex will not work. I was lucky enough to do mine after someone else did his with this type of nitrile foam and it burned from the exhaust so I used silicone which is the same condition now as when I fitted it 4 years ago. There are plenty of other materials available which will take the heat if you dont mind it looking different from the original charcoal grey 10mm foam.
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,380
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Thanks for that Andy.

    Glad I put that caveat into my post!

    I use it more under the front bonnet...
     
  19. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,320
    UK
    Indeed. Also done with the engine in & without a lift - though the first time I did it the engine was out.

    see below for why I had to do it again :D

    Its worth taking the engine out if you then take a decision to do a whole raft of other work, otherwise don't bother. Everything can be done with the engine in but I decided to take it out & aside from giving me very easy access to replace the foam, I refurbished everything else in there - heatshields, fuel tanks, manifolds etc etc. I also put a new clutch in it while it was out, new belts/bearings etc & cleaned & refurbished the whole engine. Did the shift shaft seals as well. Had the starter & alternator rebuilt & had a whole lot of stuff re-plated too.Its viable to do all that if you DIY, I don't like to think what it would have cost to get someone else to do it.
     

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