REPLACING THE ABS/ASR PUMP IN THE 360 | FerrariChat

REPLACING THE ABS/ASR PUMP IN THE 360

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011.

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  1. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    The ABS/ASR pump does 2 things in the car. 1) it provides a pulsed pressure to the cas wheels when slipping in slippery conditions, and 2) it pulses brake pressure to the rear wheels when you're gunning it in a corner, preventing you from slipping thus functioning as a traction control of sorts.

    Normal cars only have the pump active when the ABS brakes are active on ice or in the rain. In 360's the pump is active whenever the car is driving aggressively, keeping you on the road. Thus, the pump in the ASR unit that provides the pulsed braking controlling the slip control, or traction, is on more than normal cars. Hence, I anticipate that as the 360 and 430 fleet ages, burned out ABS/ASR units or their pumps will be more common. I bought mine with the pump burned out and the "ASR" and "(-)" Brake lights were active on the dash panel. I decided the time was now to change the pump. You can drive the car, as I have for the last year.. but you can't be an idiot. The car will brake and drive fine, the difference is the rear wheels will lock up more easily in hard braking, that may be a problem depending on the situation you're in.. possibly causing crunching metal. The bosch engineers have allowed you to drive the car, albeit carefully, if the ABS/ASR pump goes out.
     
  2. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #2 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To replace a burned out ABS/ASR pump I did the following:

    !!! The repair manual states you should remove more things than I have so I have deviated from the official repair protocol. !!!

    That being said, the first thing that you need to do it remove the front panel and top panel in front of the window. I marked the windshield wipers with masking tape to facilitate their replacement before I removed them from the car. You need to remove the wipers, and the top panel via the same size allen screws as the front panel of the luggage compartment. Put all the nuts washers and screws in a bag for later. see pic below. TURN OFF the power switch in the front compartment.
    (@30 minutes to 40 min. time)
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  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    If you are looking at this picture saying "wow that looks hard" or "OH MY".. stop here and hand the car to your mechanic or dealership because this is the easy part. Compared to a porsche 928 clutch master cylinder replacement being a 10/10 difficulty, this is a solid 6-7/10. If you are ready for more..
     
  4. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #4 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The ABS/ASR pump is in the left hand portion of the compartment. It has four brake line connections on the top. 11mm wrench (small) and 13mm wrench size (big). there are also two additional connections BEHIND the pump, one is 11mm, the other 13mm (see bottom pic).That are visible by looking down from behind the unit. The entire unit is held into an aluminum cradle by 2(two) 13mm nuts. Each of these will have to be removed before you can replace the unit, but please read on below before you continue!!!!
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  5. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #5 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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    At this point, you can see what you have to do.. my experience with 20 year old porsche 928 repair has taught me, its that these brake fittings will probably round out and thus be impossible to remove. SO, you can try using a regular crescent wrench, or you can get a better tool. Advice: buy a $20 set of split crescent wrenches like this BEFORE you begin. They grip the brake lines better and don't round the brake fittings as readily. All you need are 13mm and 11mm wrenches to loosen the fittings. You can also loosen the brake lines from the chassis in their holder (see pic below)
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  6. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #6 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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    Once you have the wrenches, go to each fitting and loosen it. You can be sure which fittings are going to move and which ones are irreversibly frozen and round out. I managed to get all of them unfrozen except the top right line. I ordered it from ricambi for.. get this.. $10! (Thank you Daniel!)
    The lines on top of the unit are straight forward, the ones behind the unit are a pain, access them from above. You can do these last after the top fittings are loose and the two 13mm nuts holding the unit into the cradle are removed.

    To remove the 13mm nuts holding the unit into the cradle, I found a 14mm or 15mm flat metal blad that I dremeled into a wrench to place in between the cradle and the ABS/ASR unit while turning the 13mm bolts. Loosening these will allow you to move the ABS/ASR unit back and forth to better remove the rear fittings.
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  7. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #7 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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    I should note at this time that the Workshop manual dictates that you remove the master switch for turing off the power in the car and remvoe the aluminum cradle. The cradle is removed by one bolt in the right wheel well and two 13mm bolts behind the master switch. I think they do this to better facilitate removal and replacement of the rear fittings on the ABS/ASR unit. I DID NOT ELECT TO DO THIS. I was able to replace the unit by not removing this extra stuff. I packed the area around the unit with rags to absorb any brake fluid that should spill and removed the electrical connector on the front of the unit. You simply pull the plastic tab toward you, the connector lifts off the unit automatically.
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  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #8 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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    That being said.. after loosing up the cradle nuts, I removed the 11mm fittings on the top of the unit (small). I then removed the two 13mm fittings on the top of the unit and placed the open ends into a plastic tube that fed into a container, collecting brake fluid as it drains out of the system.

    I then started the fun part... removing the two rear fittings. It's a TIGHT fit. There is a plastic drainage pipe that is also conveniently in the way. I removed the plastic pipe. You can then put your 13mm and 11mm wrenches from the top, and loosen each fitting a 1/4 to 1/2 turn at a time. It's excruciating and slow.. but be patient, the fittings will come off. Once they are off, you can lift the pump off its cradle and out of the car. I kept the frozen fitting and hose on the old ASR unit when I removed it.
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  9. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #9 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
    You take your new or used ASR/ABS unit and fit any bushings or fittings from the old unit onto it. The two 13mm bolts that hold the unit into the cradle can be pulled right out of the old unit and pushed into the new one. There is a rubber grommit in the bottom of the unit that can be replaced as well. Getting the 13mm nuts into the cradle can be a pain (washers can bind with the cradle). It'll fit in the end.

    The rags to absorb brake fluid can be removed at this time as well...
     
  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Now the fun part. Once the unit is in the cradle, you can use your hand to pull the fittings to the ASR/ABS unit. The fittings can be a pain to position because of the tight space involved and that brake fittings have to fit at a flat 90 degree angle before the threads will catch. I pulled on the ASR/ABS unit to get the correct angle while turning the fittings with a wrench from above. It's tight, but patience will win in the end. Eventually (about 20 min. of trying) both seated and I was able to tighten them 1/4 to 1/2 a turn at a time. Fun (not). When these two are tight (15 ft. lbs per manual), the hardest part is done. The manual is probably right in removing the cradle and main power switch to give better access, but you can make things work if you want by skipping these steps.

    The top fittings go in easy. I started with the rear right, then rear left, front left then finally the front right fitting.

    The fittings/pipes on the top of the unit are done last to maintain the space above the ASR unit for replacing the rear fittings.
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    After all the pipe fittings are in and tight, the 13mm bolts in the cradle are tightened. I used my improvised simple metal wrench to hold the 13mm cradle bolts, in order to tighten the 13mm nuts.

    Once the cradle bolts are tight, the brake system is bled to remove any air.
    I used a "Y" vinyl tube into a container filled about 1" with brake fluid to bleed the system.
    1) The vinyl tube is put on both 8mm fittings on the brake master cylinder and the 8mm fittings loosened. I pumped the brake pedal about 10 -15 times (replacing brake fluid as needed) to purge air from the system.
    2) I did the same for each brake caliper pumping the brake between 10 -25 times to purge all air from the system (7mm if I recall at the caliper).
    3) I finalized with one final bleed of the 2 fittings on the brake master cylinder before testing the bleed.
     
  12. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #12 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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    When done, I turned on the master power switch and gave the car 3 minutes to energize before I turned the key to start it.

    Final result: No dash lights on. :)
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  13. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #13 vrsurgeon, Oct 16, 2011
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  14. FerrariDublin

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    #14 FerrariDublin, Oct 17, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
    Hey Curt! Good job and good DIY write up!

    Is it possible to bleed the system thoroughly without the use of an SD machine to get the valves in the ABS/ASR unit to cycle?

    You'll have to test the old motor and see does it perform when you apply current directly. If not, strip and see can it be rebuilt?

    p.s. What condition were the electrical contact pins in? Mine were in a damn poor state when I inspected recently. Can you post a close-up of the pins on the unit you took out?
     
  15. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Greg,

    The pins were actually pretty clean.. :) I was sooo excited last night on the test drive and relieved that I got it in, and the brakes work fine that I didn't press things further.

    I did an agressive stop and I didn't have any problems.. I'm PRESUMING that you have to get the SD2 bleed to have it done right.. don't worry this dardevil will test things out further in the next week. :) Since Bosch made the unit, I can't imagine that their engineers would require an SD2 in order for the system to work, that seems counter to the failsafe design principles of modern braking systems. I wonder if ferrari stipulates an SD2 bleed to ENSURE no small bubbles are in the unit, and secondly as a legal disclaimer. I bled three bottles of brake fluid through the system. It should be bubble free by now, and you don't have to start the car to bleed it. Pumping the pedal when the car is off is sufficient. I'll let you know how things work out. (I'll post the pins tonight when I get home)

    The motor itself actually is held on with two size 25 (I think) Torx screws. It's coming off this week and I'll post the motor part number here on fchat as well for posterity. FUN! :)
     
  16. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

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    Hmm..... go carefully for a while and test and test again.

    I'd be concerned that your unit may contain quite a bit of air and be largely ineffective when called upon to function in an emergency braking situation. In normal mode, as I understand it, the incoming hydraulic pressure is allowed to simply pass through the unit to the output side and if that's the case bleeding that element of the system is probably quite straightforward. The danger is that there are chambers within the system to which no fluid has yet reached.

    Perhaps someone with experience of having replaced one of these units can chime in?
     
  17. THINKFAST

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    Curt, Excellent photos and details. Great to have guys like you, that go out of your way to do this for guys like me. I learned alot. Would you know why the pump failed? was it due to lack of fluid changes? or was it something else internal. Now I guess i will wait for my pump to fail... Many Thanks!
     
  18. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    My understanding based on the diagnostic last year was the motor was burned out.
    My car has 51500 miles on it. I don't know how the prior owners drove it or if they tracked it extensively, which might wear down the motor with greater activation of the unit.
    Not sure. Of interest.. the motor on the unit that I pulled out of the car was different than the one that went in. The once that went in simply had the wire enter the motor from the harness. The old burned out motor had a different plastic harness with a drain built into it to let any water exit that might build up (not sure here why had it). This drain may have allowed humidity into the pump thus leading to early motor wear.

    I'm sure your ABS/ASR system will be fine. :) These cars are in my eyes about as reliable as the equivalent year porsche. (F1 pump excluded from comment respectfully)...
    Just know that if the lights go on for whatever reason, you can fix it without needing a dealership and a $3000 ferrari ABS/ASR pump.
     
  19. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Don't worry Greg, I went a year with a inop/partially op pump in the car... I'll be careful. :)
     
  20. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #20 vrsurgeon, Oct 17, 2011
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  21. FerrariDublin

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    Oooohhhh yeah, that's much nicer than mine was! :)
     
  22. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nice diy thread!
     
  23. Sunracer

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    #23 Sunracer, Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    Even a line wrench will flex open and allow some fittings to round off. I have found that, where space permits, clamping a set of vise grips over the wrench to clamp it really tightly will prevent it flexing so you can more often disconnect a fitting without damage. Needle nose vice grips can be handy where space is limited. Also, trying to tighten alternately with trying to loosen will help unfreeze a fitting, while putting half the strain in each direction, again reducing the likelihood of rounding it off. PB
     
  24. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Thank you Sunracer! Hopefully I won't have to mess with fittings of ANY sort in the near future. :) I've even tried tapping (lightly) the fittings to loosen any corrosion. Thanks for the tip with the needle nose vice grips.

    That's kind of how I got off the final fitting that was stuck so tight.. once out of the car I used a vice grip to crank it off the aluminum pump assembly. Now I'm rebuilding it. Seems that when the pump stops (and it had stopped for quite some time) the pump valves tend to rust and fix themselves solid. So clean off corrosion, new valves and motor.. and I'll have a spare. Fun. :)
     
  25. trbo94

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    I had the abs/asr light come on in my car :(

    But spoke with vrsurgeon and read this post. The job was easier then I thought more like a 5 out of 10 but I have small hands.

    I just replaced the motor on the back of the abs unit for $60 its the same one that comes on a4 abs units. Put it in and drove the car right when I got on the street the light came off and the car runs great now. Thanks vrsurgeon again for the right up. And for anyone that has the issue it is only about 4-5 hours total of your time and $60 to replace the motor for the abs pump.
     

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