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respect for enzo...

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by bostonmini, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Absolutely ... that is why I stated in my earlier post that they are the greatest racing team, not the most successful. But atleast they kept on racing ... infact they are probably more successful at the moment because Enzo is not alive. He did use to cause a lot of political problems, especially when he stopped going to the races, and thus got the story of the weekend third hand.

    Pete
     
  2. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA

    This is pretty rude, to say the least. Tone it down, man.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Allan's true colours shining through ... :(.

    His comments in the Ferrari bikini thread, ie. 'who is the fattie in the bikini' was another one ... looked pretty good for a normal real human being to me that actually eats! and hasn't been photo shopped to perfection.

    Welcome to the internet ...

    Pete
     
  4. rodsky

    rodsky Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2003
    1,601
    Los Angeles
    Allan - you have yet again stooped to a new low. This is an embarrassing message to say the least. Not that you care. I wish you continued success because as opposed to DES, I am certain that there wont be a lot of people lining up to offer you any help should you stumble.
     
  5. WFO_Racer

    WFO_Racer Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    98
    Newport Beach Ca
    How is today's treatment from dealers any better than what must have been the treatment back in Enzo's day ? Today they make it seem like they are doing you a favor by selling you a car .My 360 is back in the shop again, the GM walked by and asked how it was going ? I told him how the hell he thought it was going, I'm dropping the car off for the umpteen time for some stupid repair. His response was that a "exotic "requires upkeep. I told him frankly he was full of sh_t . Put a decent sized hose clamp and maybe it wouldn't blow out coolant. Design a better header and maybe it wouldn't crack. We looked at my service history and I pointed out time after time when it was just BS stuff that killed the car.Maybe driving 1300 miles a month is more than this car was designed for. Pulling the car out of the garage and playing guess what that puddle is even after you just collected the car from the dealer is not my idea of fun. $160,000.00 to buy and you play the will it start and get me home game. Nobody would accept this from a $12,000.00 Honda Civic but a $160,000.00 Ferrari and it's part of the charm of ownership? When it runs it is amazing ,slamming the F1 hard when driving through a tunnel is almost orgasmic. The downside is stupid failures that make you look like a tool sitting on PCH waiting for a tow vehicle . That was today, missed a damn fine lunch because it crapped out.
     
  6. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
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    St Mark
    OK Allan, I'll be the mouthpiece on this one. Simply put...you're a c.unt.

    DL
     
  7. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,335
    Denver, CO
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    Sunny
    That really bites. Unfortunately, driving a Ferrari as intended means fixing it as intended. Good luck with getting yours back and hoping it stays fixed this time.

    The difference between the Ferrari and the Civic is the Civic has a pedigree of engineering excellence that modern Ferraris are lacking. Until this gap is narrowed, I personally refuse to do anything more than entertain the idea of owning one. Thats just my opinion of someone who didn't grow up enthralled or understand what Ferrari was until I joined here and understood the cars and the owners up close. The Ferrari we all talk about now, be it the first car or the latest car or limited edition super car rolling off the production line, is Ferrari of the "past."

    The fundementals of what keeps people coming into the Ferrari showrooms are so strong, they will continue to do so through the next generation. And than what?

    All the Formula 1 victories don't mean a damn thing when you can put more track miles on a Kia than you can a Ferrari before you need major repairs. Maybe not a Kia, but you see the point. Ferrari and "engine building prowess" do not go together. The competition in the exotic or prestige segment is producing the more exotic cars, out performing Ferrari, costing less, and have no less colorful a racing legacy driving them to succceed. The goal is to push Ferrari into obscurity on the streets where the war is being waged now, not on the circuit.

    Allan baits, some of you bite. He said it best (at least, I think he said this), the Stradale is what the 360 should have been all along. I'd take that one step further and add in the words "and somewhat reliable."

    To people like me, Ferrari is being overshadowed by every other manufacturer currently putting more passion and engineering into their automobiles, instead of their race cars, to continue their legacy. Ferrari is being reduced to a badge and a legend, if they don't start acting in the next couple of years to change that.

    Sunny
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I'm confused. You're unhappy with your 360 breaking down? Sell it.
    You think Lambo's suck? Don't buy one. Some people hate modern houses. Do you think I worry about that every morning when I wake up and watch the sunrise over the ocean?
    Make yourself and the one's you love happy.
     
  9. AJS328

    AJS328 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Apr 23, 2003
    7,518
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    Augustine Staino
    That's nice Jim. :)
     
  10. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,617
    California
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    Carbon McCoy
    i *heart you*, too, Hubert... :)


    LOL, Thanks, Ryder... :)


    Allan, if i'm so much of nothing in your world, why do you constantly feel the need to reply to me and make incisive remarks...? Hmmm...


    LOL, Darth - Simply put, that was perfect. :)
     
  11. tacoz4sale

    tacoz4sale Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2003
    286
    Hey everybody!...whoa..it seems there are give and takes on this enzo ferrari....lol. Ferrari is all about prestige and passion to me. I personally dont own a Ferrari.......its on my to do list though. Well, If Enzo didn't rule with an iron fist and wasnt cocky as you guys said....Ferrari wouldn't be around today....it probably wouldve sold to some car company.

    -I read some where that Ferrari's Capital is approx-1.5 billion dollars....you can buy Ferrari/Fiat right now....you guys wouldnt happen to have that $ would you?....cause i NEVER want Ferrari to be bought out...

    Correct me if im wrong Ferrari being bought out..cause i read that somewhere quickly....i wasnt too sure bout it.
     
  12. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,335
    Denver, CO
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    Sunny
  13. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
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    Dirty Harry
    From the get-go of DES's annotation, I was reminded of Tom Joad in Grapes of Wrath:

    MA
    (after a pause)
    How'm I gonna know 'bout you? They might kill you an' I wouldn't know. They might hurt you. How'm I gonna know?

    TOM
    (laughing uneasily)
    Well, maybe it's like Casy says, a fella ain't got a soul of his own, but on'y a piece of a big soul--the one big soul that belongs to ever'body--an' then...

    MA
    Then what, Tom?

    TOM
    Then it don't matter. Then I'll be all aroun' in the dark. I'll be ever'where--wherever you look. Wherever there's a fight so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there. I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad--an' I'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry an' they know supper's ready. An' when our people eat the stuff they raise, an' live in the houses they build, why, I'll be there too.
     
  14. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
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    Dirty Harry
    Allan, you're the lowest of the low life losers on the 'net, period. You think money buys class? You might have fooled some people on F-Chat, just because you live in a tropical area with a couple of Italian cars, but you don't fool the rest of us who drive cars - Italian or not - who don't stoop to conquer.

    DES has something money can't buy. Class.

    DES doesn't care what others (aside from vermin such as yourself) think of him, but others (aside from vermin such as yourself) think highly of him. Take Napolis, for example. He's a moneyed fellow who doesn't talk down to his fellow man. He's earned a few accidental friends on F-Chat, because he's friendly - but that's no accident - that's real class. In the end, it wouldn't matter if Napolis had money or not, he still treats his fellow man like his equal, that is the reason why Napolis is regarded highly on F-Chat - and, to that end, why DES is regarded much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much, much more highly than you.

    Don't bother with "I don't care what your opinion is, wax - you only drive a Saab, har-har" as the bottom line is - My sentiments will be backed up by the majority of high-life fellows in F-Chat, too - so you might as well go stoop and conquer yourself with your gold-plated dildo again.
     
  15. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    So much pent up anger on this thread! instead of driving classes (skip barber, or whatever,) we need some type of anger management class...I know how much everyone loves their cars, but honestly I am SCARED to see what happens if theres ever a fender bender....road rage will be too light a word!
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,353
    Perhaps we should be giving PininFarina the credit! After all, that design house did pen up all the successful road cars.
     
  17. JH

    JH F1 Veteran

    Nov 14, 2002
    5,014
    Odense, Denmark
    Full Name:
    Jonas H.
    Allan,

    You really are the perfect example on the kind of man none of us here on F-chat and anywhere else wants to be. Don't know how your wife can bare to life with a stuck-up pinned in the ass **********. Can't you do anything else than bashing others on this board?

    If you are so much richer than all of us here on this board, and with your prescious Diablo.. Try and BUY some class. (They probably wont sell you any) Are you the dictator at your household? - If the wife and kids don't agree with you on cars, you bash them and call them *****es and bastards ?

    Try and grow up little man.
     
  18. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,684
    Santa Fe, NM
    a few points -

    PSK said " I actually think he was a motivator of people ... which is close to a marketing guru, as they motivate people to buy their products."
    you nailed it, PSK, I think Ferrari's quote about himself was "I am an agitator of men."

    A few posts have mentioned the "i'm doing you a favor" aspect of the american dealership network. Although I think the quality of service has generally improved over the way it was for 40 years, I believe you can attribute the more mercenary aspects that took hold in the dealer network more to the late Luigi Chinetti Sr. than to Enzo.

    Mr. G; great house! I think I'd take my morning coffee on the platform down by the water . . .
     
  19. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2003
    5,724
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    John Millard
    So for you Enzo lovers, researchers, historians.... Heres a question- What would Enzo do now?

    -Lambo has taken the exotic road
    -Porsche sucessfully taken the SUV path to financial independance.
    -Ford has taken the Historic racing retro
    -Ferrari[/QUOTE]

    He'd probably go racing!
    Just like the Scuderia is now - in the absence of Ford, Porker and the Torino Tractors (who have never managed to achieve even a semblance of a racing history in spite of the tedious chest thumping histrionics about how fast their cars are!)
     
  20. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2002
    40,617
    California
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    Carbon McCoy
    Thanks, everyone... Allan's just an idiot, so i don't take anything he says, personally... He obviously has some issues if he feels the need to attack other people so ferociously... i kinda feel bad for him... It must suck to be walking around, filled up with that much hate all the time...
     
  21. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    No doubt Ferrari would be different today if Enzo was still alive and in control, impossible though as he would be 105 years old, perhaps if he had a strong son who wanted to be part of the company that he felt worthy to give his stock to instead of selling it to Fiat, such as Henry Ford II or Ferry Porsche, Fiat is in control of Ferrari no doubt with its increase in production and robots making the cars instead of skilled craftsmen and all the prostituted Ferrari logo cheap junk and trinkets they allow now
     
  22. Testacojones

    Testacojones F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    5,139
    Terra
    Theres nothing more pathetic than to think that Ferrucio Lamborghini cares about the people and that Enzo didn't. Enzo stoped going to the formula one races and didn't got close to his drivers because he hated losing friends, his pilots.
    Ferrucio started his car company because he saw how much money Enzo was making and thats exactly why he started Automobili Lamborghini, he was there to make money and tried to take on Ferrari, but he never did. Remember that he sold his company right away when the "oil crisis", if he was there for his cars all the way then he would of had stayed and gone down with his ship, but no he did the scared bussiness man thing and sold before taking any risk. He was long gone and had almost nothing to do with the Countach, the Miura is not all you here about. Ferrari sold part but stayed and still had control over the racing part.
    Another thing is the tall tale (Bob Wallace even talked about it in a Lamborghini book) on how he went to Ferrari to complaint about shortcomings in his Ferrari's. Then the tale says how Ferrari denied to see him and then one day Ferrari insulted him telling " you don't know a thing about cars, all you know is how to drive tractors" , and that this was enough to give Ferrucio the idea of competing and building better cars than Ferrari. He hired a lot of ex Ferrari talent and started his thing, but it was clear that there was no reason for his cars to command such a price but rich people and there were a lot and still have many ignorants that buy something just because its different, some of this oddballs bought his cars and started a following, but they were never to be close to a Ferrari, even less in class or status. The incident never did happened. It was all a publicity stunt. All of this is clear when we see that Lamborghini can not stay away from the countach, the Diablo and Murcielago still carry on the same tune, it may be on a different key but the song its getting a long in the tooth.
    Just look how many models Ferrari comes up with, and dont start talking about how Ferrari its got more money because thats just proves again its superiority, in the race track and out of it and I don't mean in the streets but in the bussines world, where it can be just as tough to come ahead, and thats why Lamborghini again has been stock with the Countach theme.
    Another thing is that Wallace even says how Lamborghini used to switch motors in cars when he knew journalist were going to test them, one time they did this to a Miura and the famous journalist and experienced racer Jose Rosinski who Wallace ranks him up with Paul Frere returned back pale white after a run in the car which nose went up in the air at 179mph, Rosinski drove the car the day before but Wallace told him to come by the next day for another run, then the Lamborghini people switched the motor overnight for another that had 40bhp more and the car by a miracle didn't almost killed him, all the guy could see was the sky. Rosinski never did speak again to Wallace.
    So lets just say that the Countach its the supreme amongst Lamborghini's and the one that should cost $280,000. The Countach did show the way and its among may favorite cars, but lets not mistake Ferrucio for what he was and leave the tall tales for little kids.
     
  23. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
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    Jul 31, 2003
    9,760
    Long Island, NY
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    Sam
    Well put Gus. I've never had anyone laugh at even MY car, but if they did, who gives a damn? I love it, end of story. Wait a minute..what are we even talking about? If anything people put Ferraris on too high a pedestal, not the other way around. And it still comes down to the same thing: who cares either way?
     
  24. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    I was under the impression that ferrari (the man) was really too old to be of any use to the F1 team, and that it was determined that things were better without him around (less disputes) and that as for lamborghini, he simply contracted the best engineers, as he knew very little about cars. I also heard some place that the story was indeed inaccurate, that feruccio actually intended to do cars prior to his alleged encounter, either way, todays cars are all gorgeous, I saw a black/red murcielago for sale last week that stole my breath, and today, a beautiful titanium/bordeaux maranello (550). So great..
     
  25. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    PS-anyone have both V12 flagships? interesting comparo, one more sedated, much more rational for real driving, one much wilder, maybe more exciting, much less practical...decisions, decisions, both seems to be the logical choice;)
     

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