Restarting 308 sitting for 4 years? | FerrariChat

Restarting 308 sitting for 4 years?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by autophile, Sep 7, 2005.

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  1. autophile

    autophile Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    6
    Maryland, USA
    Hi all,

    I have an '84 308 GTSi QV that's been sitting for the past four years :<

    Does anyone have any advice on what to do to restart the thing so that the engine doesn't blow up on me?

    Thanks,

    --Rob
     
  2. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    I've been through this with a carbed 1978 308 that sat for an untold number of years.
    -Was it stored correctly? The fuel system will most likely be gummed up.
    -Is it rusting anywhere? If so, electrical grounds/contacts may need to be sanded.
    -Check brake rotors and possibly the clutch for serious corrosion.
    -Shocks may be shot due to inactivity.
    -check for tire dry rot and flat spots
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Rob -- Do a search here on "fogging". That should get you a few threads related to preparing for, and recovering from, long-term storage.

    I share Vince's concern -- the many small passages and close-fits inside a K/KE-Jet system don't tolerate mis-storage well.
     
  4. Adriaano

    Adriaano Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    4
    a few things to try ...
    (1) is starter motor turning engine over ok ??
    (2) is fuel getting tothe lpugs ..pull one out after truning enigne over..should be wet with fuel
    (3) is enough spark there...test one pud lesd ..should ZAp 1/2 inch or so to an eatrh..
    (4) If no fuel on plugs, tyry putting a few drops dwon carby venturiea..if a weber carby model
    (5) also 308s rae finiiky on floodin g..make sure all plugs are CLEAn and DRY ..maybe try new plugs ..keep old ones as spares

    hope this helps ADRIAANO ..have 308 meself
     
  5. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    First get all of the old fuel in the system out. That old of gas will cause you soooo much heartache if you run it through the carbs or injectors, and engine.
    I would squirt marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder and let it sit for a few days and repeat a few times before trying to turn the engine over by hand. Do not use the starter at this point. If it turns ok and you feel good about it put some fresh gas in and try to start it. There will definately be something leaking somewhere.
     
  6. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2005
    3,321
    UK
    Personally I wouldn't even consider cranking it over without cleaning out the whole fuel system, inspecting all the fuel pipes and replacing the v-belts, the cambelts and tensioner bearings. That will also allow you check that the water pump & alternator etc are moving freely. A bottle of FI cleaner in the first tank of gas wouldn't be a bad idea either

    I'd also change the engine and gearbox oil, the oil and fuel filters and consider changing the coolant as well before starting it.

    Then I wouldn't drive it until I'd replaced the brake fluid and had a good look at the rotors, calipers, pads & tyres. If it hasn't been moved regularly or been up on blocks/jacks the tyres will probably be pretty square by now.

    Other than that the usual routine of pulling the plugs & putting some oil down the bores etc & a big strong battery should do the trick....(with a bit of luck).

    I.
     
  7. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I would second the "turn by hand" part of the above quote, as well as the MM oil in each plug hole before doing anything. Also, if the car has really sat for four years, this is more than obviously a car needing a good 30K service, with the cam belts being replaced. If you shear a aged belt on start up you will be forever kicking yourself.
     
  8. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Aye. Jack up the rear of the car. Put the car in gear, obviously with the engine and parking brake off. Now turn the rear wheels by hand.

    Since the car is in gear, this will turn the engine over. After you've turned the wheels many times, you will have circulated some small amount of oil back into the cylinder areas where it has been missing in action for 4 years. This will also get your timing belts off of their old flat spots, slightly reducing your chances of breaking a belt when you do finally crank her up later.

    Your old oil will probably be acidic, so drain and replace it. Your water in your radiator will need to be replaced (flush out the corrosion before it grinds into your waterpump). Your old fuel will want to gum up carbs or fuel injectors, drain and replace it.

    Test your brakes and your clutch prior to starting, too. Wouldn't hurt to fog your cylinders by removing the spark plugs and spraying in some marvel mystery oil, either.

    In general, you want all new fluids and you want to be **gentle** at first with all moving parts before you turn hundreds of horsepower loose on them (i.e. move them by hand first).
     
  9. peajay

    peajay Formula Junior

    Apr 17, 2002
    454
    near Paris, France
    Full Name:
    Paul
    For me the most important thing would be to squirt oil into all 8 cylinders before you hand crank the engine, leave it soak for a few hours should be enough. Draining the tanks and putting in fresh fuel would be next. I ceratainly wouldn't run th engine long before changing the belts and tensioner bearings. Normal oil changes, brake checks etc should follow before you drive it. Just stay close to home for the first few drives and good luck !!
     
  10. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    RE: Draining the tanks.
    The way I tackled this was to drain from the connector pipe drain screw, then I disconnected the pipe itself by unclamping the two short fat rubber hoses to the tanks. Once I did this, I liberally sprayed engine degreaser inside the two tanks and the pipe and flushed out with water. Repeated several times. Tried to dry excess water inside tanks with small rags. Let air dry for 2 days.
    Also disconnected the various fuel lines near the fuel pump and around the engine and drained them. Drained and replaced the fuel filter...that filter was gummed up solid! Once it was all back together, I put in a couple bottles of dry gas with a few gallons of fuel.

    All in all, not too difficult, but time consuming. Getting the connector pipe off is probably the hardest part.

    Vince
     
  11. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
    2,518
    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    'air dry for 2 days' can be shortened by blowing air from an air compressor into the tanks...use moderate/low air pressure, just wanna get air flow moving, not go to Cat 5 on the hurricane scale :)
     
  12. pernicev

    pernicev Karting

    Jun 22, 2005
    134
    True enough, but then I was in the middle of doing a major service, so the car wasn't going anywhere soon...not to mention it was 100 degrees out!
     
  13. lm2504me

    lm2504me Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2004
    1,122
    Nipomo, CA
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Hello,
    If I had a motor sitting that long or after a rebuild, I will remove the oil pressure sending unit and connect up an oil source to fill all the galleries, primes the oil pump and fills the cams. I will also spray a little oil in each cylinder.

    I use a garden sprayer, fill it up with oil and press / attach the hose to where the oil pressure sending was removed. I then pump it up and note the loss of at least a quart or two from the garden sprayer. I doesn't take alot of pressure.

    When I start the motor up my oil pressure usually comes up in seconds.
    I have done this on two Dino Fiats, one Lambo, and two Ferrari's. I will be doing it on my Dino 246 when I get ready to start it in a couple of weeks after I finish the rebuild.

    I would also replace the timing belts. The belts may have taken a hard set due to being in one position for so long. Cheaper to replace them and tension than to get a valve job.

    I also put some new gas in the tank.

    I did it for a 308 I bought sitting for 10 years.

    My .02 worth.

    Richard
    Dino 246GT
     
  14. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    mine sat for 3 years. 2 additional tips:
    -my oil filter was totally dry, it sits upside down and all oil seaped out over time. The new filter I installed I filled up with oil first, amazing amount goes in there.
    -the regulating piston (plunger) from the fuel distributer was stuck. You can check this after removing the airfilter, if you push down the airflow metering plate and it stays down (or it won't even go down easy), the piston is stuck. You can remove the ring with the 8 fuel line connectors by unscrewing 3 bolts and gain acces to the piston, pull it out with a cloth protected vice and clean it. No high pressure fuel seals from the unit are involved, only an o-ring for airseal. When reconnecting the fuel lines use new brass rings obviously.
     
  15. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    Exhaust valve issue?
    Philip
     
  16. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
    1,776
    Roermond Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bert Kanters
    What can we do? Like playing russian roulette... After the first week of careful driving and stopping for every strange noise and checking everything after each (short) trip, I felt comfortable revving it regularly to 7000 because the engine felt so good, no problems. I'm almost sure mine has original valves, nothing much was ever done to it, at least not after the first 10 years.
     
  17. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    Where are you in MD?
     
  18. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,224
    Windsor, CT
    Full Name:
    Bill Sebestyen
    Rob,

    I think the advice given is solid, but very conservative. If it were my car I'd:

    1. drain the fuel tanks and replace the gas, at least to 1/4 full, add some dry gas and some fuel system cleaner and change the fuel filters.

    2. Purge the fuel system, although I have a carb car, so I don't know how this is done on a FI car

    3. Pull the plugs and fog the cylinder bores with oil. Marvel mystery oil might be ok here, but don't put too much in as it may foul the plugs on start up.

    4. Pull the valve covers and coat the cam lobes with a high viscosity oil or better, a little assembly lube. This should protect the lobes for the time it takes to build up oil pressure.

    5. Drain and replace the oil with a low viscosity oil like maybe SAE 10-30 oil. You want to facilitate oil circulation during the initial start.

    6. It's a good idea to fill the oil filter with oil prior to turn over but with the inverted filter I don't know how to really do this without making a hell of a mess.

    7. With the plugs removed, turn the engine over by hand a couple of revolutions to ensure everything is free.

    8. Ensure a fully charged battery.

    9. Engage the starter with the plugs still out for perhaps 20-seconds. You should realize oil pressure within this time period.

    10. Ensure that you have spark to all cylinders. If you don't have a tool to visualize the spark, spark plugs fitted to the plug wires and laid on the engine block will suffice. Confirm a healthy spark to each plug and have a helper turn the engine to facilitate this exercise.

    11. Have several sets of new, pre gapped plugs available. I would use hot plugs for the initial start. It's likely during the initial start the plugs will quickly foul, especially with oil in the bores, so you want to be able to replace them as needed. The car is unlikely to start with fouled plugs.

    12 Have a halon fire extinguisher ready to go.

    13. Go for the initial start. A LITTLE squirt of gas in each of the throats may be useful, but I'm a carb guy, so this may or may not be possible on your car.

    14. If the engine fires, but doesn't run, try again.

    15. If it doesn't fire again, check the plugs, replace them if they are fouled, and try again.

    16. Once the engine fires and runs, bring it up to temperature.

    17. Take a short drive.

    18. Replace all fluids.

    19. Go for another ride.

    20. Replace belts if necessary, check for leaks, other porblems and rectify as necessary.

    21. Return home, open a bottle of red wine, and drink heavily, and think of what needs to be done tomorrow.

    Bill
     
  19. autophile

    autophile Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    6
    Maryland, USA
    I'm in Rising Sun.

    --Rob
     
  20. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    You are basically in PA. Maybe someone in that area could give you a hand...
     
  21. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    Charge the battery
    remove the plugs
    squirt a little oil in the cylinders
    turn it over with the starter motor till you get oil pressure
    put the plugs back in and off you go
    don't go crackers with the revs till you change the belts.
    With luck it'll run just fine.

    my .02
     

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