Restoration Threads

I have been lurking on this site for quite some time. I don't interact much, I have a Lotus, not a Ferrari.

Watching someone restore their car, and do a nice job is a pleasure, one we can or could have all shared. Since I am slowly restoring a Lotus Europa, I like to see how others restore theirs. Believe or not, there was a lot of relevant information in Jon's posts. His work is careful, methodical, and first rate. His documentation is also excellent and very helpful. It is also going to help others who tackle their own cars.

The insults were unwarranted, and un-necessary. Very disappointing in any forum and in particular this one.

Restorations are not about money. I have never seen a restoration that was about money. Restoring a car always takes more money and time than you could sell the vehicle for. They are guided and influenced by available funds certainly, but they are not about the money. In Jon's case, he was doing almost all of the work himself, except for some specialized things, such as paint which is certainly hard to do and a quality job requires equipment and a facility that no one would have as a hobbyist. Sometimes there are skills that are reasonable to pay for ( paint and metal work). I would say that in this case, it was about the work, doing it youself, family time, and probably many other personal reasons.

Many people send their cars out to be restored. From Alfa's to Zagato's people pay restoration shops to completely redo their cars. Now that's expensive. I applaud anyone who would pick up a wrench and do it themselves let alone do it this well. Who cars if someone has enough money to buy Snap-ons instead of Tony's Pretty Good Wrenches. It's irrelevant.

Quality restorations take time, and money. Even if you do 100% of the work, it takes a lot of money just to buy the hard parts that need replacement. In Jon's case I see no evidence of throwing money at the car. What was spent on the Dino in this case is certainly not excessive for a Ferrari. If I spent that on the Lotus then yes, that would be throwing money at the car. In my case, I'll have to spend quite a bit more than the car is worth on the open market to restore it to new. But, I still can't buy a new Europa for any money. Any you can't buy a new Dino. If nobody restores them, they will become rare indeed.

Could you do a quality restoration in a smaller facility, yes. Could you do it in the back yard? No. There are many other restorations happening on this forum. Jon's was consistent and available for everyone to see and learn from, and, unfortunately, criticize. Gary Bobileff owns a professional shop and also posts here. Is he going to be a target too because a lot of money and time gets spent on his restorations? He has a nice shop and good tools too by the way. Oh, and I am sure someone has called him an artist too.

I am disappointed in the loss of Jon's posts as are many others. I am not going to restore a Dino, so Jon was doing it for me :0)

I like this forum, there is a lot of useful information here, a lot of fun, and a lot of fantasy. Thanks for the indulgence.

Charley

 

Hello Charley, and +1 from myself. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

If you recall some of Jon's first posts asked members about restoring Dino's and a few replies came back saying something to the effect that it was difficult and he should proceed with caution if at all.

Little did we know that he would put together one of the best restoration journals ever. Great step by step instructions along with very high res pictures. I appreciate that he took the time to share this difficult task with us. I have restored a number of different Italian cars over the years and can say this was a class act. I strive for that type of quality, so it's nice to see someone put their heart and soul into it.

It gave us a look into a world that was often held secret by many restoration shops, and for some it showed how difficult the task is. In a way it may have help'd many restoration shops, showing the wealthy owners how much work is involved and how much time it can take complete even small tasks.

Now we are treated the dark ages of Dino restoration, a bunch of rusted out hulks being restored in England on dirt driveways in cold weather with low resolution pictures.

Sort of like when your favorite band breaks up.

 

Some serious pwnage right there...

 

Perhaps we should put an end now to this sorry episode that, for me, put such a pall over this vibrant community. I hope we will see restoration sagas again - they are all fun whether in a 9x9 or in the dream garages that we all want to have.

The thread allows us to be little boys, showing off our toys, what we did with them, how well we did things, perhaps with what we have, without fear of the rebuke that might come from an unsympathetic audience. That made it fun. I hope we can continue to do that again.

Andy
Manila

 

Yes, Back to the fun stuff!!

I snuck away to the garage tonight for couple of hours to continue to repair the disaster behind the dash left by multiple previous owners that didn't know what a wiring diagram was for. Now the tach will work, i'll have instrument lights. The hazards will come on, the high beams will flare again, the original water temp gauge will work. All of the warning lights will function again. I just need to find the turn switch I bought 8 weeks ago to replace the broken one in the column ( P.O. replaced it with a momentary toggle below the dash!).

I really need to pull the harness but this one runs and drives so I am going to use it while I restore the others.

Cheers!

 

Docdozer

Charley,

I noted you are in the throes of restoring a Lotus Europa and experiencing the joys of redoing the wiring behind the dashboard (facia according to the manual). I restored a 1969 Lotus Elan 3 times (the same car!) and replaced the dashboard twice (the 2nd time because the wood cracked in a vintage racing accident), so I have some idea of what you are going through. I found the restorations fun though, and I am sure you are enjoying yourself too.

My car and a brief history are in the local sports car club site:

http://www.manilasportscarclub.org/public_html/news/sportscar2.html

My apologies to the others on FerrariChat for this off-topic note. On a more relevant note, though, the fact that I restored the Elan 3 times (all body-off, down to the last bolt restorations) over 2 decades meant that I had a little more money doing each subsequent restorations. The joy experience was the same, although as I got older, it was nice to have better premises, tools, and, later, air-conditioning.

I would love to restore a Europa, perhaps a Series 1 body with a twin cam and Hewland box!

Good luck, enjoy.

Andy
Manila

 

I'm looking for a Lotus too - a good Series 1 Elite.

Mark

 

I am compelled to comment on this unfortunate situation. The lack of civility is disheartening to me. Stress, whether it is caused by jealously, fatigue, anger, or frustration, when combined with anonymity has, in my opinion, led to a significant decline in civility and to a dramatic increase in rudeness.
Respect for others is an important part of an ethical and civil society. When people behave rudely, they are not only scarring those they insult, but also damaging the society around them. If we tolerate such behavior by avoiding letting the offenders know we are disturbed by their actions, then we contribute to society's decline.
I, for one, am letting the offender know that I don't appreciate it.
Constructive criticism is a different subject, but I can't find anything constructive in these negative comments.

 

+1 Jim. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

dinogts

You, too, Mark?

Lotuses and Dinos complement each other. They are so different! To think they competed against each other in the 1950s-60s when their philosohies were so opposed.

I love Elises and would like a nice one with a ZF box, if I could afford one. If you haven't already, subscribe to the Elite newsletter by Greg Paris, which is free, and has for sale ads.

Greg Paris
Editor - Club Elite Newsletter
[email protected]
Oregon, USA

I know Mike Ostrov is selling one of his Elites. If you haven't met Mike, just call him (his address is in the newsletter). He is a super guy.

My apologies again for the off-topic note. Now back to Dinos.

Regards,

Andy

 

On the subject: Very good post, Charley, I agree on every point you make. Restorations are never about money, only about passion. This whole conflict was unnecessary and disappointing. But not to dwell on it further, let us all just celebrate the fact that, 99% of the time, this forum is a model of civility and courtesy.

Off the subject: I am happy to see that there are other Lotus fans here. I dearly miss my Elan Fixed Head Coupe and I am hoping to one day acquire another one. Colin Chapman and his men sometimes took shortcuts in the execution of their designs, but the design concepts were never less than brilliant. A purer sports car there never was, and so much fun to drive!

Andy – Your Elan looks seriously good! It looks like it has been done right – something that is very rare for a Lotus Elan. Enjoy it!
On another note, your mentioning of the Shadows on another thread brought a smile to my face. You do not have to be from England to know who they are, although being a certain age and from Europe probably helps. I remember them fondly, and listen to them sometimes (on a vintage juke box or tube amps/vintage bass reflex speakers with Goodmans drivers – of course). All good, clean fun!
Lotus Elans, tube amps, Shadows, they all go to prove that people who like Dinos often have other interests in common, too. All the more reason to keep this great forum active and alive – not to mention friendly and courteous too.

Lars

 

Yes, me too.

A few years before we bought our Dino, my wife and I were tempted to buy a beautiful Lotus 23B that Don Orosco (he of Scarab vintage racing fame) had. My wife saw it first while we were attending the Wine Country Vintage Race Weekend at Sears Point (now Infineon). I kept on telling my wife that it was going to be for her, and not for me, so she could go vintage racing, but we had just bought and had started seriously racing a keel sailboat, and by the time I contacted Don again, he had sold it.

I can't justify a 23B now, but I think a Series 1 Elite would be an interesting companion for our Dino.

Cheers to you and those you like Dinos and Loti!
Mark

 

I agree, too often these threads degenerate into ad hominum, it deters others and it certainly deters me from diving in. Imagine the blow back: my current project is a Dino, but a Fiat Dino Spider, so imagine the questions of my sanity. Everything is harder to find as there are ony about 225 of the 2.4 liter cars left, vs the many, many 246s. And expensive? The engine rebuild of 6 cylinders was 75% of the cost of one of my 12s. And when it's done it will never be as valuable as it's Scaglietti bodied sister. But I wanted one so George Leigh Mallory's rationale applies, M

 

All of the sports cars from the same time have something about them and they do complement each other well. It's why I keep coming back to this forum. I used to hang out at Lime Rock Park and made sure I was there on Ferrari Club days. The restoration threads and links on this forum are truly great. They give more insight and information than any of the available books ever can.

Andy's Elan is beautiful, by the way.

 

Thank you, Lars, docdozer. I did most of the work on the Elan myself, so, like Omgjon and the others who have posted threads on their restoration or repair, I am quite proud of the result. Now, restoring a Lotus is I think easy compared to restoring a Dino.

Andy