Resurecting a '75 308GT4 - won't start

If it were my car the first thing I would do is go through the fuel lines. These things have a propensity to go ablaze. And then I would change all the belts/filters for piece of mind. Unfortunately and then could go on for a real long time ;-)

 

Starting this thing should be a long way down the priority list.

Take the plugs out & rotate the motor by hand. If it's all moving OK then don't even think about starting it till you've changed the belts & bearings. It entirely possible that a cambelt could break just from starting it & then the motor is "lunched"

As above, also change the fuel lines before you start it.

If it has any gas in it you need to drain it & get rid of it - it will be stale. Change the oil too.

But before everything you obviously need to find out if the car can be salvaged & what damage those "Meeces" have done to it.

 

ah, come on, live a little....hook er up to the battery charger, squirt some starting fluid in there and see what happens!

 

He said 308GT4, not "Celica GT4".

 

One of my biggest concerns is if the mice ate the wiring. If they did, it could be a nightmare to sort out under the dash.

http://www.macroevolution.net/what-do-rats-eat.html


"Rats eat huge quantities of food stored for humans and livestock and they contaminate far more than they eat. They also gnaw the insulation of electrical wiring, which can cause fires. In the U.S. alone damage and losses attributed to rats total approximately $ 1 billion a year."

 

Congratulations on your GT4. How about some pictures!

You might want to read this thread about a Barn Find 348. Very fun reading but it might give you some cause for concern (although obviously two completely different cars).

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250500

Dave

 

Yeah, did you take some pictures of the extraction from the woods! they would be interesting - not many dusty barn finds left I imagine.

As much as it's tempting to start a dormant car (and I've done it on cheap ones) consider the rebuild cost/time if a belt gives. Don't break the motor - you'll really regret it, although I like Cliffbeers enthusiasm

I'd pull the belt covers and check the belts out first then as suggested consider turning over by hand. You can get all kinds of stuff collect on the bottom drive pulley between the belt and the pulley - if you suck that stuff round the pulley it can easily jump/snap a belt. New belts are less less than $30 for a pair - it'll take you a few hours to swap them, and you'll be happy that it's all good in there.

Lee

 

Since you are essentially getting the car for "free" I would pull the engine and take it apart. As mentioned all belts, fluids, and hoses need to be changed. Most likely the carbs will need a rebuild also. Spend the money now and get the car up to 100%. Just my opinion. When if you spend 15-20k on it now that is cheap since you had no initial purchas price.

 

I would vote for giving it some love before proceeding. All fluids, some dissassembly to service belts and hoses, inspect wiring at a minimum, clean-clean-clean. You'll get much farther down the road and be much happier.

Make sure fuel lines are safe!!! I know of a beautiful GT4 that was stored in a nice garage to have a fire after awaking from a long nap. Also, my GT4 was stored for a while, and kept very clean. Upon starting, I checked the running engine and noticed a pinhole stream of gas coming from one of the carb connector lines. The stupid fuelline wasn't that old! It just had a defect that showed up after sitting. I didn't see any mouse activity.

It will be great to see your car return to its former glory.

 

A lot depends on how long it's been sat unused? I'd first find out if there was an existing problem that caused it to be taken off the road.

If you've got time and money to spare, then a major check of the engine is in order. If it was me (no spare time or money!) then I would at least check the oil, fuel lines and the state of the belts. The electrical problem could be anything from a single loose/corroded connection to a complete loom replacement needed. It's worth pointing out that the electrical system is pretty basic compared to a modern car, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get going if you can get the fuel pump running, the engine turning over and the plugs sparking.

 

I've owned my GT4 for over 23 years. It runs great. Handles fantastic. The only non-original thing I deal with is tires. The rest works very well as is. When I first got it, new distrib caps were 40 - 65$ each. My car buddies thought that was a fortune and I should investigate retrofits of american caps etc. I freshened it all up with a thorough service when I got it and maintained it in stock form and it has all lasted quite nicely. The performance is still magical to me. I agree the newer stuff is "better". Distributorless ignition, sophisticated fuel injection etc, but just my opinion based on long term ownership is try it in its pure form and see what you think.

Best of luck & Post some pix!


PS: You really have owned some wayyyy cool rides!

 

I just want to add my .02 to the fuel lines. My GT4 was dormant for many years before the PO sold it to me. I drove it home on the ancient belts and I had to get gas for the drive home but I couldn't get the pump to stay on. Screw it, I only filled it half way. Twice. That probably saved my bacon. When I got it home I actually filled the tank(s). It scared the crap out of me. There was an old cloth covered fuel hose connected to the tops of the tanks soaked with gasoline right over the front header.

(I would offer help since I am also in the Bay Area, but I am already behind. I promised another GT4 owner I would help with brakes months ago and I have not. Where are you?)

 

I have been working on engines for almost 40 years, and found that the 308 is one of the most challenging projects I have ever taken on.

Do not take it lightly. It is a most unusual animal, in that it is an "interference" engine, if the cams are not timed perfectly, the pistons will hit the valves and you will wreck the engine. If you are not familiar with this type of engine (it's rare among common american and japanese cars) do your homework or you will ruin it.

The rest of the car is pretty normal, but the engine is definitely different.

The learning curve on a 308 is steep. Study the manual (available free on line) and take your time.

 

I am in the Bay Area. I have a decent amount of Ferrari tools and used to work on my GT4 all the time (maybe that is not so good!). I may be able to help you if you need something specific. My Gt4 is now gone, but there are things about it I still miss. Not enough to spring for another one, but ... they are still fun.

 

The mice living in one of mine preferred the fuel lines, to the electrical wiring..

Which was a GOOD thing actually....

Post of some pics of your find, and get the inner fenders out to start inspecting the fuel system..

 

Check for Private Message.

 

Probably Step 1 would be a new battery...

But you have a lot of folks here warning you not to 'crank it' without checking a few things over....

coolant and all oils should be drained and renewd, most likely the carbs are trashed with varnish.

 

I allways thought it was a good idea to pull the plugs and give a squirt of marvel mystery oil in the hole and slowly crank it over a few times to make sure things are free'd up. Is this still a good idea? Congrats on the car, we will be anxously waiting for reports on your progress.

Cheers!

 

Have a look here to see what you are in for. It took me 4 years.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92998

Even though it's free it won't be cheap! But congrats! Once it's sorted it's a blast!

 

Absolutely, I believe in that stuff too!!

Then dump in some Royal Purple! LOL!

 

I've known Spencer for 25 years, since he was a little kid. Back then his Dad, a neurosurgeon had a beautiful 275. Spencer, his Mom and Sister were very much a part of the Ferrari Club back in the 80's and 90's. Really nice folks.

I sent him a PM with all my advice, then realized there may be others who could benefit from my thoughts, so here goes:

I still have my GT/4. My son and I just completed a belt change/valve adjust and I'm now in the process of replacing the fuse blocks and some electrical upgrades. Andy lives in San Francisco and is a professional mechanic working for PG&E. He went to school and got his FAA Airframe and Powerplant certifications (probably the best mechanic training there is). I've been training him to work on the Ferrari, and he'll get it in great shape, not out of the woods. I'll be seeing him on Thursday and will ask him if he can help you. He's very knowledgeable and could survey the amount of work you will need to do.

I'll go through my receipts and send you another email with sources for all the parts you will need. You should be able to do this for around $2000 including new tires.

Be very careful with the mechanics you let work on the car. An old hand once told me "more Ferraris have been worked over than worked on." This forum is a good source of information, learn to use the search facility - it will be your best friend.

First of all, don't even think about turning over the motor yet.
Split the project into systems - use the shop manual as a guide.

1) First remove the seats and carpets, then the front center console section. Clean the seats with saddle soap and then treat them with Leatherique Rejuvinator - several applications. Let them sit while you do the other work, which will improve your access to the electricals.

2) Electrical. Get a new battery and charger. The fuses are in the glovebox. The relays are under the footwell in the passenger compartment. You should probably consider changing the fuse holders, those old fashion Italian fuses are extremely unreliable. There is a guy on this board selling replacement fuseboxes using AGC (glass tube) for $140. I used modern spade fuses and got the fuseblocks for under $20. Contact me if you want that info.

Go through each circuit and fix it if it doesn't work.

3) Brakes. You will have to bleed the brakes to get the old fluid out. Think about blowing them out with nitrogen. Remove each caliper and dump out the old fluid. Make sure the piston moves in each caliper. You may have to rebuild one or more. Reassemble, refill and check for leaks. Especially check the rubber hoses connecting the steel lines to the calipers. Any sign of rot- replace them.

Repack the front wheel bearings.

4) Cooling system. drain, flush and check for leaks. You should consider replacing the 13 rubber connectors - Use Gates Green Stripe hose and new Stainless Steel clamps.

Replace the thermostat and gaskets. Remove and clean the crud out of the overflow tank. I have a source for a new Stant radiator cap for under $10. Replace the hoses.

Consider getting the radiator "rodded" out. Don't even think of using a chemical flush or, God Forbid! a Stop Leak.

5) Fuel system. Remove the fuel pump and fuel filter, take the bottom off the pump and clean it out. Clean the filter housing and replace the filter. Bench test the pump.

You really should replace all the fuel lines. There are two sizes. I prefer BMW fuel line. You can get it at the BMW dealer in the correct mm sizes. It is the best fuel line available.

The carbs will probably need to be rebuilt. Kits are available - watch out for the ball bearings. There are lots of postings on this site regarding the procedure.

6) Now the engine. Blow out the holes before you remove the sparkplugs. Put a rag in each hole.

Drain the oil and refill with some autoparts-store brand 10W30 synthetic oil (its cheaper than name brands and you will be discarding it soon). Remove the valve covers and replace the rags into the plug holes in the head.

Fill up a Catsup squeeze bottle (Clean out the catsup first) with your el-cheapo oil. Squirt about 2cc into each cylinder hole. Liberally squirt some fresh oil on the cam lobes and bucket tappets. Manually turn the engine to TDC as indicated on the flywheel as PM. (Turn the engine clockwise when viewed from the passenger side wheel well). Make sure the cam lobes are pointing away from the tappet on cylinder 1, if not rotate the engine one more time. You will need a 32mm socket on the front of the crankshaft for this. I can lend you mine.

Replace the cam belts and tensioner bearings. YOU MUST DO THIS, or risk a $10,000 engine rebuild. Lots of postings on this Andy or I can help you with this.

Replace the cam covers and install new sparkplugs.

7) Distributors. These are complex, and will need to be rebuilt. I have become an expert on the way these things work, and I even bought and rebuilt a distributor machine, which is the only way to set them up. After my car sat for a couple of years (long story) and Andy and I pretty much did all the stuff listed above) the car started on the first rotation. Even Andy was amazed. Box up your distributors and send them up to me. I will rebuild them and set them up for you.

8) Put everything back together and have a good drive. Change out the cheapo oil and put in some good 20W40 Synthetic (I use Castrol Syntex). I would recommend some ZDDP Plus, which is the modern version of the Molykote the shop manual mentions.

9)Fix all the rest of the stuff you missed the first time through.

You will probably be working on this car for a year or more, and will continue to find problems for some time, but that is part of the fun.

Call me if you need any help or a shoulder to cry on. Say Hi to your family for me.