Hello from Germany, I'm seriously interested in purchasing the A/C upgrade kit from Retroair in TX, because if I add the costs for all the single components I have to pay over here, I would end up much more expensive. Even including shipping, customs, etc. ( A/C is a common thing in the US, but still seems to be luxury equipment for Europeans ) Ferrari Air Conditioning Upgrade Kits Does anyone have any experiences with it. Or better; did install this kit in his 308 ? I already had some e-mail conversation with them and they replied fast, friendly and competent. The first detail question I have is; I'm a little bit concerned that the adapter for the new compressor lacks the lower bracket. At least from what I read and understand. They even already sent me the complete instructions and contents list. Best Regards and thank you in advance for any hints. Martin
Guten Tag Martin, I don't want to play the "schwartzer Peter" here, but surely before doing such important work, you keep in mind that, as per European regulation 842/2006, R134a will be fully and totally banished in the European Union for any vehicle, old or new, as from January 2017? Only substitute identified so far is something called HFO 1234yf, so I would enquire about the compatibilty of this system with any substitute after 2017...otherwise, in about three years from now, you will be doing this work once again. Rgds
Hello, where can I find the confirmation, that this regulation applies to ' all vehicles, no matter old or new '. What I find, just says, that from 2017 R134 is banned from NEW cars. We already know this scenario from the ban of R12 back in 1998 (?). There were more or less effective substitutes, but my A/C is know in such a bad shape, that I don't want to spent money for rebuilding it. After this, it would still be R12 with poor performance when filled with R134. And 1234yf is no alternative, because it is highly explosive. Therefore Mercedes - Benz had initiated a recall for new cars with 1234, now filling those A/Cs with R134 and initiated a lawsuit against this EU - regulation. Best Regards and thank you Martin
Martin, I have contradictory information, but some articles as this one (and I know you can read french!) "Ce fluide n’est plus autorisé depuis cette année dans les nouveaux modèles de véhicules et sera supprimé dans tous les véhicules à compter de 2017". Le fluide frigorigène R 134a bientôt interdit aux Etats-Unis - Automotion says that it will be for all cars, both old and new ("this fluid is not allowed any more since this year in new vehicles and will be banished from all vehicles from the beginning of 2017") I'm not sure if their interpretation is correct, but what I know is that some mechanics here say that it is better not to invest anymore in a whole conversions to R-134a. The only way to be sure would be to read rule 842/2006 and all the following decrees... Regards
I have used their smaller kit but have spoken with others who do not participate on Ferrarichat that have done the big kit and both told me that it was a vast improvement. It is quite an involved upgrade best of luck. There is another type of bracket available elsewhere that is adjustable and hence does not require the tensioner to be used. Others have reported that it works very well. If you do a search here there are threads and pictures of both types. They both work. Try searching "compressor" by Crowndog in advanced search. Also, you will need to either replace the A/C hoses because they are porous to R134a or add R134a from time to time (smaller molecule).
P:S to Martin: any vehicle using R-134a in Europe should now satisfy an annual test on the quantity of gas escaping the A/C system... Rgds
How do you know, I can read french ? O.k., a little bit. But their interpretation is not correct. ' tous les vehicles ' should read ' tous les vehicles nouveau '. The legislation applies to complete new car types from 2011 and ALL new cars from 2017, even those from series, that did already exist before January 2011. For example; a car manufacturer launched a new car series in 2010 which will still be in production in 2017. Between 2011 and 2017 they would be allowed to fill the A/C with R134. From 2017 onwards R134 would be banned from those cars, when sold as NEW. The new car sold in 2017 isn't allowed to use R134. The used car of the same series from 2010 is. Another car manufacturer launched a new series in spring 2011. For these cars R134 is banned from the beginning. No old car can be sold as a new car after 2011. Therefore this legislation does not apply to old cars. Old cars in our sense. Complicated like all the trash, which comes from Brussels. I had to read it at least five times. Best Regards Martin
Fine, Martin, if R-134a is still allowed after 2017 in older cars. Don't forget to have a quick look at the datas for the annual evaporation test, how much the car is allowed to loose/release in the atmosphere...from what I understand, it could mean that will have to change some/all tubes of the A/C system... Rgds
Excellent; most mechanics here now refuse to put R-134a in a circuit that has not be upgraded with all new hoses. Best,
I am close to purchasing this kit for my car. However, as most of you know, I will NOT be using 134 in my car with that new system. Only R12. End of discussion. I'll keep everyone posted as this project develops.
I just had that compressor put in my 82, from Retroair in Texas, by my local mechanic, he said the man in Texas was very polite, knowledgable and the product was top quality and fit like a dream, So far my A/C blows ice cold! I just had it done a few weeks ago. My US car had the York pump, no more! Dennis
SO HERE"S THE DEAL: Retro-Air doesn't really know squat about Ferraris, but they DO know about A/C in cars that don't have them. They know what works, and have sourced excellent components for their product line. Great stuff. My problems were from the installation. Retro Air worked-with a guy who is well-respected on another forum, the Ferrari List. Long-time contributor from Texas. His car was the test-bench for the kit. Each component was installed and found to work great. My issue is that the complete kit was never installed soup-to-nuts during this process, nor was that process documented. Only PARTS of it. If you're well-versed in mechanicals, and like some DIY latitude in your projects, familiar with A/C systems in-general, you're fine with this kit. Have at it. If you like a solid parts-list, a step-by-step procedure for installation, diagrams, a functional system diagram, etc. You're NOT getting one. There are two GLARING 'gotchas' with this kit. One, the A/C lines that arrive in the kit - the ones that connect the compressor in the engine compartment to the rest of the system in the front of the car - will NOT fit through the hole beind the fuel tank as they come to you. The lines have both ends, pre-installed with the rigid fittings, which won't take the corner to go into the hole in the car. You have to cut one end of the fittings off the line, run the line, and re-attach a new set of fittings once the hose is installed. Retro-Air is aware of this, you call them up and they ship you a new set of fittings you'll have to get crimped onto the line later. OR tell them to NOT crimp a set of fittings on a pair of lines before they ship.... The OTHER gotcha was a tough-one.....my F-List contact swore up-and-down that the stock Ferrari A/C belt would fit once the compressor was installed. However, there was little info regarding HOW to install it to the engine, so my mechanic who has a background in Mechanical Engineering, did his best....(NO diagram, NO step-by-step, NO picture...just a bag of parts, a couple of custom brackets, and "Here ya go").....its semi-straightforward. But even as an Engineer, he didn't appreciate the 'guessing-game' with how the thing was supposed to be bolted-up and bolted-on. There was some 'play' or latitude with the Factory system to get the compressior adjusted properly for the Factory-spec belt tension for this application. However, the stock Ferrari belt for the application was 'barely' under-tension to drive the compressor. After repeated attempts, I finally got my F-List contact to admit to me via email that he went with a custom Gates belt from their catalog to run the compressor.....why this isn't mentioned in the instructions, and I had to practically BEAT this information out of him, I don't know.....but a piece of string and a Gates belt catalog nearby can get you a correct belt sized and ordered to get adequate tension for wherever your compressor is installed. I may be able to dig-up the Gates belt order-code if anyone needs it, I have it in an old email. The Condenser install was a jigsaw-puzzle, but with the bumper and valence/grill out of the way, I had the time and space to play with it to get everything the way I wanted it. The other jigsaw-puzzle is the fan-box under the dashboard. I have yet to do this, but the instructions that come with the kit appear to deal with THIS part of the installation with some adequate detail. I should have this done in a couple of weeks.
I don't know anyone who used Retroair for a Ferrari, but I do know several who installed their system for Jaguars, particularly XKEs. Everyone who used their kit was completely satisfied. And a mechanic friend of mine who installed the systems said they were great quality, and things actually fit without much need to customize. Admittedly, the universe of experience is small, but I have not heard anyone say anything bad, and only say things good about Retroair kits. YMMV, but that's the view from where I sit.
This is all I have: "" Please note that the pulley on the Sandon is a timy bit smaller than the one on the York so the belt is a little too long. On my car I could make it adequately tight with the tensioner but in doing so, it is adjusted to the limit of its travel. The belt can easily be replaced by a slightly shorter belt. Its metric and 11mm wide but the length I have forgotten 850mm comes to mind but that is an easy measurement to make. Gates says O'Reilly Auto Parts, etc. can get the belts but won't typically stock them at the store... ""
Doc, Get the adjustable mount and it becomes a non-issue with the benefit of eliminating the tensioner. You will need some spacers and washers. Look here: YORK TO SANDEN 4510 or 8390 COMPRESSOR MOUNT KIT on eBay! or http://www.ebay.com/itm/YORK-SANDEN-COMPRESSOR-MOUNT-AC-COMPRESSOR-MOUNT-/230436651993?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D400175519174%26ps%3D54
That is much appreciated info. I did an a/c update on my old 911, so I think I'm comfortable dealing with the issues you describe. It is really nice to know, however, what I'm getting into before parting with the cash, and I'm sure others feel likewise. Please do let us know your impressions once your install is complete, and best of luck. --Woody
My mechanic,regis,installed the system and it blows and cools very well,,It took him a month and he had to remove the gas tank,front hood and grille.He is fitting dynamat as my feet were getting cooked.We are going to use the 3M clear widow tint.
You know the retro for the AC system in the Ferrari is outlined by me in the "interesting DIY Thread" sticky at the top. you can avoid most of the issues by reading thru that. I will take my lumps for not finishing the condenser install portion, but is pretty darn easy. EDIT: That kit basically contains everything I did with mine, except my condenser is a bit different. Really the hardest part is getting in the new AC lines, which can be made a lot easier by removing the gas tank (do your belts while you're in there! ) again, read my DIY, I talk a lot about the pitfalls/guesses and how to avoid them. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/344660-diy-ferrari-308-ac-system%3B-everything-you-wanted-know.html EDIT2: last one I promise; its easier to get the lines in front to back. You can rent a crimp tool to make the lines. Some you can drive with a ratchet, others with a air gun. Ask Retro to ship you all the parts/pieces for those main lines separate so you can install them. You can't get them in with the fitting already installed.
