Returning 1961 Vignale spyder 1341 to the road | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Returning 1961 Vignale spyder 1341 to the road

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jan 21, 2024.

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  1. eogorman

    eogorman Formula Junior

    May 10, 2005
    322
    Buhl, ID
    Full Name:
    Eugene O'Gorman
    Sorry I do not have that info. My 3500 build sheet also has the 430cm2 shown. This is an area measurement not volume. The total swept volume is 580.88cc per cylinder. I do have a number for a v8 4.7 early engine which is shown as 75.8cm3, with a capacity of 588.6cm3 for each cylinder. The CR of both engines is similar..Maybe a quick note to the factory might get you a number.
     
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  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
    3,034
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    The cylinder head is back from the shop. All the combustion chambers were measured and two found to be a bit smaller than the reset. They are now all approximately 93cc each. Valve clearances were are adjusted.
    Before I can reinstall the head it needed to be painted with wrinkle finish. I've found the paint MIE sells to be excellent. I've tried the paint that comes in rattle cans and have never found one that would give a nice uniform look.
    Two heavy coats were applied using a paint gun with a 2.0 tip. The first coat was allowed to flash for about 15 minutes before applying the second coat.. It took several hours at room temperature for the wrinkle to develop. Today is a nice sunny day with temperatures expected top go up in the mid 70's. I will roll the head outside to a sunny spot to help with the curing process.

    First photo is the paint just after being applied. The second photo was taken the next morning (today). It will take at least a week before the paint dries up enough for the cam cover lettering to be sanded down.

    Ivan

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  3. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    While the head was being worked on the suspension got some attention. Rear brakes were done. Differential oil changed, differential pinion seal replaced, rear sway bar bushing replaced and much cleaning and detailing.

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    I should be done with the front suspension in the next couple of days. Cleaning, detailing and zinc plating small parts take a long time.

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  4. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    I just finished installing some new front end components and now the car sits very high and the steering is extremely hard. I did not remove the springs, shocks nor replaced the upper and lower bushings as those were found to be in good condition. I did replace the upper ball joints, tie rod ends and the steering rod links using parts from MIE. The lower ball joints were cleaned and re-greased but did not need replacement. I noticed during the installation that the joints on the new components were very difficult to move, more difficult than what I would have thought normal. Have anyone experience a similar problem after working on the front suspension?

    Ivan

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  5. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Bob
    I had a similar issue with one of my cars (not a Maserati or even an exotic) and eventually I had to switch to a different brand for the parts to fix the issue. The steering wouldn't naturally re-center itself completely when you made a turn. But that was a vehicle with parts available from many manufacturers. Aren't most of MIE's reproduction parts made in China? What about the factory's parts?
     
  6. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,241
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Ivan...

    I will throw some things out here... Could your a-arms be tightened too much? Also, when you push down on the car, does it lower? And
    finally, I think you removed the head along with the radiator, correct? That is probably not enough weight to lower the car, but it might
    help a bit when these are re-installed...

    Mike
     
  7. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The car barely lowers when you push down. I noticed after reinstalling the upper and lower balls joints that it was very difficult to manually spin the axle assembly side to side. This would point to the upper ball joint as being the cause since the lower is still the original. The upper ball joint would also affect the up down moving as this joint has to move as the front end bounces up and down. Perhaps the new joints will loosen up after a couple of drives, although I doubt it. I have the old upper ball joint and its very loose compared to the new one. I may put a new rubber boot and reuse it.

    For now I am leaving things as is and work on re-installing the head and getting the engine running again. I need to get the car to the point it can move by its own power so that it can be loaded on a trailer and taken to the painter. That also means that the brakes need to be operational.

    Ivan
     
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  8. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,265
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    John!

    I cannot speak to this particular car but I had this issue with a Dino a while ago. I drove it a few times and it 'wore in' ok and settled down. Really tight new suspension components was the issue.

    Did you compare the old ball joint to the new? Are they geometrically identical for the most part? MIE are usually really good about sourcing the correct stuff.
     
  9. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    Geometrically it looked identical, just extremely tight.

    Ivan
     
  10. redfred84

    redfred84 Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    602
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Hello Ivan,
    I rebuilt the entire front suspension on my '61 3500 GT some 20+ years ago, sourcing all the parts from current owner of MIE (which I would think is the same source today?). I had no issues with the new replacement parts. I just did the same thing on my '52 Jag XK 120, which uses similar components, and no issues on this one either.
    Best of Luck, RF.
     
  11. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    Ran into an issue when installing the two external oil lines to the head. The two two bolts are different and according to the parts manual they should be the same. One bolt has large holes and the other has small holes. Which one is correct?
    Ivan

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  12. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The plot thickens. The upper and lower oil bolts have the same part number but a different description in the parts manual. If you look at items #21 and #36 you will see what I mean. On my car three of the bolts have the large holes and only one has the small hole. I am inclined to drill out the one with the small homes to match the other three. Still, the parts manual makes things more confusing since now I do not know if they misprinted the description or the part number.

    Ivan
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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    do you know with certainty where you removed the smaller holed one from the oiling system?
    Perhaps think about what the function is.

    Call Eugene O'Gorman.
     
  14. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    That is wild. It doesn't like look a too challenging area to get to so it might behoove you to ask someone with the same engine and see if they can't remove theirs to check.
     
  15. redfred84

    redfred84 Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    602
    SF Bay Area, USA
    In my general experience, I've found that the smaller holes are on the pressurized "Feed" end of a line, and the larger holes tend to be on the gravity fed "Return" side. But I've never dealt with this on a Maserati.
     
  16. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    That is exactly what Gene O'Gorman was kind enough to do and it turns out both hoses have the bolts with the small holes on the top and the big hole bolts on the bottom. Therefore one of my bolts is incorrect. I need to get a hold of one bolt with the small holes. Anyone?

    Ivan
     
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  17. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2006
    10,451
    opposite lock
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    Marc Sonnery
    Leo Peschl's company has restored tons of 3500's to very high standards and sells parts, the actually recreate many, they were covered in the Classiche Masters book.
    They speak English.

    https://www.leo-peschl.de/en/

    info (at) leo-peschl.de
     
  18. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,265
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    John!
    Usual suspects probably have something but they'll probably have to dig around a bit. Mcgrath, MIE, Campana, Peschl

    Worst case scenario, tell me the thread size and approx length and I can have it made.
     
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  19. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2008
    1,399
    USA
    Full Name:
    Gentleman Racer
    Making your own Banjo style bolts is not that difficult to do. It helps to have a vice and a drill press or a lathe etc. I've made many, also, there are many variations that are available. Getting good copper sealing washers is becoming challenging at times.
     
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  20. Froggie

    Froggie Formula Junior

    Sep 27, 2017
    480
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Serge
    Discovering such a mistake of bolts fitted in the engine is scaring.
    Imagine how the engine may starve from insufficient oil flow in critical areas...
     
  21. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    #71 thecarnut, Apr 5, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
    True, not something you want to discover when working on an engine. I am actually surprised to have noticed the different size of the holes.

    The good news is that the cams and cam bearings all looked good. I found a replacement banjo bolt that should arrive in a couple of days.

    Ivan
     
  22. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    #72 thecarnut, Apr 5, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
    Engine is now back together. Gas tank was paint and installed. I am about ready to fire this thing up and hopefully all will be ok. Fingers crossed.
    Ivan

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  23. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The engine is alive!

    Having learned from a prior experience, I placed a large wet towel on the front fender in front of the carb trumpets in case flames came out. Years ago I almost burned another Vignale spyder. To make matters worst, the garage was in the basement, under my bedroom. Luckily the firetruck came quickly and the fire did not spread but the Webers suffered damage and the right front fender paint burned. I recall my wife was out of town. "Honey I burned the house" would have not been a pleasant conversation.

    Sure enough, until I was able to get the engine in tune the flames coming out of the carbs of this engine were scary. The wet towel did its job and all is good. Engine is now purring as it should.



    Ivan
     
  24. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2009
    289
    Birmingham, UK
    Full Name:
    Balbir
    Brilliant work as always Ivan.

    Bal
     
  25. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
    851
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Oliver
    Beautiful work Ivan. And sounds in rude health. Well done and look forward to seeing her on the road!

    M
     

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