'Ringers'

I'll jump on this.

Traveller, you mentioned in the other thread that you "knew for a fact" that Ferrari uses ringer cars for their press fleet. How did you find this out?

Also, does anyone else have evidence for/against that Ferrari (or any other manufacturer) uses ringers for their press cars? And I'm not talking about historically, I mean within the last five years. Dyno stats, confessions from managers, etc...whatever you've got, please, let's hear it.

 

The 458 of our fellow fchatter that was clocked at 6.2 sec. for the 100-200 km run is as fast, if not faster, than the times achieved by magazines for the same dash. Thus, I call no foul play!

On the other hand, it's only reasonable that test cars are the most looked after, but not neccessarily different than their customer brethren.

PS: I have seen on a GPS the advertised top speed of the 430; 2 miles higher to be precise! No foul play there either.

 

If I may add my $0.02 here:

I worked for a local tuner here in town for a couple years (US cars, not Ferrari) and got to see first hand a lot of the tuning and computer work that comes from the factory versus what can be done individually to each car. You have to understand that factory cars have to have quite a bit of "safety" built into their ECU tunes (even high performance cars like Ferrari).

Even within a specific market like the US, there is a quite a wide array of fuel qualities that are found and must be accounted for by the factory. You may THINK you are using a high quality fuel, but in actuality the fuel you are getting might be crap and your car's ECU will pull quite a bit of timing to prevent detonation, which robs you of quite a bit of power. Add to this differences in elevation, which can be A LOT even within the same state, and you can see where power losses might happen.

Obviously the factory must account for all these scenarios and tune their customer cars accordingly. Remember, customer cars have a warranty and the manufacturer wants to avoid problems at all costs. A test car can be tuned for whatever the test conditions are and whatever fuel is available, but you can never know where exactly a customer car will end up and you have to account for this.

When you know exactly what conditions you are going to run a car in, you can tune A LOT of power back into any car. I don't think it's a big deal that manufacturers do this, they're just trying to get the best possible performance out of the car for the test. But if you think that your car (any car, not just Ferrari) is tuned for optimum performance straight from the factory, you are mistaken. Your car is tuned for an optimum trade-off between performance and safety.

 

All press cars are the most looked after.
Anyone here really think Porsche or Mclaren or other carmakers send cars to the press as they go out from production line ?
Really ?
How many times my company have sent certified components at 100% in a separate racks with a nice information plaque ' for PRESS CARS ' just following a specific carmaker request ?

Doing so, are the manufactur lying to the final customer giving to the press car not representative of their own production ?

I don't think so. It's just propose their product in the best condition possible.
Ferrari is simple perfectionist doing that.

Otherwise
Anyone here that at the first date was nice parfumed, fresh faced and with a nice bouquet in the hand was clearly lying to his wife-to-be because he was NOT rapresentative of what she will really find after first ten years wedding anniversary.


Sorry for my bad english.

Luque

 

Well said sir! Bravo!

 

People seem to forget that "Ferrari" has a big ego. Something that comes easily to them; with the best product and the biggest customers.
When the F50 was introduced the factory did not want any road tests with performance numbers generated for their new supercar. They would not supply an F50 to generate test numbers. When individual F50 owners were contacted about magazine testing of their car they were all for it; especially if they could do the test driving themselves. Bring it to the track and lets see how fast it is!
However once Ferrari got wind of any owner offering his F50 for a test drive suddenly the selling dealer would put the brakes on any testing. Being the best customers meant special perks from Ferrari. Eleven different F50 owners immediately bailed on the project. No owner wished to risk that relationship.
As Ferrari noted they could not be sure of the condition of the vehicle, or how it had been maintained. Guessing about the condition of a particular car was not in the plan.
Conversely if the factory is offering a test car it is under their tight control. Just as it is today with Ferrari engineer Luca Torre handing over the keys for a new Ferrari at the track. Every thing is correct on the car and a computer simulation has already told Ferrari what lap time the car should deliver. There is no guessing when you play to win...
CH

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_3xEPACPVQ]1964 Pontiac GTO leaving a car show - YouTube[/ame]

 

I've been at magazine tests. Some bring cars off the factory line (corvette ZR-1 for example) others bring 'special' cars. Ferrari's tend to be more special than most.

 

By "special" you mean press cars? Yes, indeed. They have limited production and their cars are already sold, so they have to have a couple of cars just for demonstration. You can't just take a car off the production line as that car has already an owner! By the way, these demo cars are sold in the end.

 

Here are my thoughts from the 'VS' thread, by the way GM tweaks test cars terribly or at least they have. I've seen it. Anyways:

Every, and I mean EVERY manufacturer sends tweaked sports cars to the press to test. Some manufacturers 'tune' more than others, I know several ways that Ferrari tweak their cars for the press and the funny thing is the average owner does more to tweak their own personal Ferrari, than Ferrari does to tweak the press cars. Several bone stock privately owned Ferraris have been run by magazines with spectacular results. If you want to see special press cars just look at what Nissan do with their GTRs. They 'tune' their cars so much that another manufacturer actually went to the 'ring and tested Nissans claims. Having driven a stock US spec GTR, it's nothing compared to what the magazines get to test. Mclaren tweaked the 12C that ran at Dunsfield quiet a bit. Pagani just flat out cheated. Lamborghini do it too. Porsche are the least guilty of 'tweaking' and even they do it. Said tweaking in 'most' cases could be called 'optimizing'. The most reliable sources are found when magazines/shows/blogs use privately owned cars.

 

fanboy #1? wow.

 

Pagani send a Huyra with Slicks to the Top Gear track..

All manurfacturers do this. Ferrari is just one of many.

 

why dont we decide what constitutes 'cheating' vs 'optimizing'.

for example, its not a big deal if they adjust the alignment because an owner can readily do the same. on the other hand, it should not be ok for the boost on a turbo motor to be turned up. tires are more of a gray area.

lets make a list of what ok vs not...

 

Agreed.

The reason I ask is, in my day job, I'm an automotive journalist, so I spend quite a bit of time in press cars. Obviously, I have a bit of a vested interest in know whether or not the cars I drive are substantially different than the ones owners do.

Of course, I go into the test with the assumption that a press car has been "optimized"—that is, that everything is as close to ideal factory specification as possible. The car companies pay fleet service companies big money to meticulously take care of these cars, and I'm sure they go out of their way to make sure the best examples off the assembly line are the ones that go to the critics.

That said, I've never heard rumors within the journalist community (and we do like to talk amongst ourselves) that most car companies are using ringers. The whole Chris Harris Ferrari revelation notwithstanding, it just doesn't come up very often.

That's why I wanted to know if anyone had specific, concrete examples of automakers using press car ringers. I don't need specific details—I'm not doing a story on this or anything, and I don't want to get anyone in trouble—I just want to be better informed. Feel free to PM me if you prefer, but any information would be appreciated.

 

Missed the report on this. Though, if so, slicks are pretty hard to conceal - unless the journalist declines to make mention.

 

I had heard they were slicks with hand cut tread.

 

Link? Still tough to miss if you take a glance at the tire before you jot down what it is in your text.

Always figured "ringers" involved various hidden tricks - like marbles in the bottom of the vegetable soup bowl to push all the good stuff to the top.

 

Ford's Mondeo lost the European Car of the year competion a few years back because the journalists found stickers on the dampers that said press car prepared or something similar.

 

I read the issue of R & T , Oct 2012.

It covered all the basis. Ringer or not ?. Dyno test and the 458 with the least power was still the top performer.
It describes pretty well that the Ferrari and Mac had a lot of pride in this test.

What does this tell us. Well it was the perfect track for the 458. The Corvette lack traction in acceleration. The Mac, well was last.
The 458 and Mac had identical acceleration numbers. Mac carries less weight.
But, give a different track things could be reversed.

It has been proven that ringers were NOT provided. Even the EVO test gave the Mac techs the ability to use corsa tires, and to no avail the results did not prove a success. The 458 is still the better track performer.
Just as Mr. Millen.

So what do you do. My suggestion is just drive. If your going to drag race a Mac, just make sure it is real hot outside. Turbos do not like the heat.

 

(2 different posts below)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142159925-post1058.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142160684-post1094.html

 

Hateboy of the last order....

 

Don't you hate it when a fellow professional embarasses the whole trade?