Rivals call for Haas/Ferrari relationship investigation | FerrariChat
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Rivals call for Haas/Ferrari relationship investigation

Discussion in 'F1' started by Agent Smith, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

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    #1 Agent Smith, Mar 28, 2018
  2. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    #2 crinoid, Mar 28, 2018
    Lol, this is so silly. Drudged up nonsense. Watch the videos. This was devastating to Haas.
     
  3. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    #3 ricksb, Mar 28, 2018
    Were something similar to have happened before (or after), suspicions could be justifiable. I still don't know how they screwed it up so badly but it did seem they were pretty devastated about the screw-up.

    EDIT: Just read the article, McLaren and Force India are talking about the massive improvement in performance on behalf of Haas and questioning if Ferrari is sharing more parts with them than they should be.

    It's not about the incidents from last race.
     
  4. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #4 Gatorrari, Mar 28, 2018
    Wasn't the same sort of argument used a few years ago about Red Bull and Toro Rosso?
     
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  5. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

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    #5 Agent Smith, Mar 28, 2018
    Force India and McLaren want the Haas Formula 1 team’s technical relationship with Ferrari investigated after questioning the American team’s “magic” performance.
    Haas locked out the third row of the grid in qualifying for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix and ran fourth and fifth ahead of Red Bull before pitstop mistakes condemned Kevin Magnussen and Romain Grosjean to retirement.

    It triggered fresh questions over Haas's working relationship with Ferrari, which supplies the team with parts it does not need to build itself but also allows Dallara, Haas's chassis partner, to use its windtunnel.

    F1's sporting regulations strictly forbid the passing on or receiving of information on parts teams are supposed to produce themselves, a move also designed to stop personnel being rotated between projects.

    Force India chief operating officer Otmar Szafnauer wants the application of those restrictions discussed in the next meeting of F1's Strategy Group.

    "I don't know how they do it, it's magic," he said. "It's never been done before in Formula 1.

    "I just don't know how it can be right that someone who's been in the sport for a couple of years with no resource could produce a car [like this]… does it happen by magic?

    "If it does, I want the wand."

    McLaren driver Fernando Alonso labelled the 2018 Haas a "Ferrarireplica" in Melbourne, and his team's executive director Zak Brown told Motorsport.com it was "something that needs to be looked at closely".

    Haas driver Romain Grosjean said the use of Ferrari's front suspension, which the regulations allow, would naturally dictate the major aerodynamic design points because of the way the air flows over the rest of the car.

    Brown admitted "I don't have any evidence" to suggest Haas was not operating within the rules, but said: "We all know they have a very close alliance with Ferrari and I think we just need to make sure it's not too close.

    Want motorsport news in your inbox?
    Sign up for our newsletters!"There could be some influence, there's certainly some parts of the car that look very similar to last year's car.

    "But that's for the engineers and the FIA to look at more closely."

    Brown and Szafnauer both said multiple teams would support a clarification over the Ferrari/Haas arrangement.

    Szafnauer said he wanted the FIA to explain the process for ensuring the guidelines were being respected.

    "All the aerodynamic surfaces have to be your own," he said. "If they're not, I don't know how you can tell unless you start investigating.

    "Scrutineering only tells you that it fits within the boxes of the regulations.

    "Is it yours or somebody else's [idea]? That's the real question. And I don't know the answer to that.

    "Maybe it is their own, it's just suspect - how can you gain that knowledge without history and the right tools and people?"

    Asked by Motorsport.com on the Ferrari comments earlier in the weekend, Steiner said: "We have a team that can be proud of what it is achieving at the moment.

    "We are not doing anything we shouldn't be doing or not allowed to do."
     
  6. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

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    #6 Agent Smith, Mar 28, 2018
    Wasn’t Red Bull from the ashes of Jaguars last foray in Formula 1? They turned around quickly from a mid-back team and had quite the successful run. I think it’s great Haas is putting other teams on notice. Yeah they butchered their pit stop and that’s a painful lesson but it’s nice to see the field shaken up a bit.
     
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  7. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
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    #7 kylec, Mar 28, 2018
    That's a non sequitur. Regulations spell out to what extent teams can buy parts from other teams and what other services can be utilized.
     
  8. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    #8 tifoso2728, Mar 28, 2018
    Interesting stuff. And, I pose this question because I truly don't understand the alleged violation - What would be the punishment if it was found that Ferrari "helped" HAAS too much? And, who would make such a judgement and what would it be based on? Yes, I've read the complaints from the other teams and I just don't get it.

    To me, it adds up to a quick helping of sour grapes from the complaining teams. I think the same gripes were brought forward regarding HAAS during their rookie season, correct?
     
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  9. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

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    #9 Agent Smith, Mar 28, 2018
    My point was, it's not like we've never seen a team make a dramatic leap before under new ownership/leadership.
     
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  10. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    #10 tifoso2728, Mar 28, 2018
    Meh. This won't go far.
     
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  11. Gran Drewismo

    Gran Drewismo F1 Rookie

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    #11 Gran Drewismo, Mar 28, 2018
    +1

    Brawn GP, anyone?
     
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  12. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #12 Bas, Mar 28, 2018
    buying up a used team and developing is not illegal, or even using their chassis and that's not what being said.

    They believe Haas has basically got Ferrari 2017 chassis with 2018 engine in there and their own wings. A constructor needs to make their own chassis. We know they buy their suspension and engine etc from Ferrari, so mounting points will have to be the same with what they're provided. So long the chassis has enough differences with last years Ferrari, the rest can keep complaining whilst what they really should be doing is develop their own car...
     
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  13. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    #13 NeuroBeaker, Mar 28, 2018
    Brawn GP, 2009?

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  14. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    #14 NeuroBeaker, Mar 28, 2018

    D'oh! I'm slow today. :oops:

    That's what I get for leaving tabs open. :D

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  15. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    #15 tifoso2728, Mar 28, 2018
    So, Ferrari can't send the drawings to HAAS and say "Here, you might do well with something along these lines . . "??
     
  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    #16 BMW.SauberF1Team, Mar 28, 2018
    I don't think there's anything against using a chassis made by another team from prior seasons, but the issue is if their current chassis is from a current team and the current season. Heck, Super Aguri used a four year old Arrows chassis in 2006 that was on display at the Melbourne Airport (sporting Minardi colors). Then they had year old Hondas for both 2007 and 2008.
     
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  17. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #17 4rePhill, Mar 28, 2018
    Nope! - Dallara makes the Haas chassis, not Haas! ;)
     
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  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 jgonzalesm6, Mar 28, 2018
    This is true. Was'nt their some kind of "turning the other cheek" about this issue Phil?
     
  19. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    #19 tifoso2728, Mar 28, 2018
    Will there you go! Case closed no matter what the outcome of the "investigation".
     
  20. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    #20 beast, Mar 29, 2018
    The sharing of suspension parts is going to give Hass the same level of mechanical grip. aero grip is the big difference here between the 2.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Looks to me that Hass has more drag than Ferrari with all there extra wing elements and turning vanes.

    If the other teams took there complaining about there competition time and used it for developing there own cars they just might be more competitive
     
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  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 TheMayor, Mar 29, 2018
    Meanwhile....

    Haas is asking for an investigation how McLaren / Renault is so much SLOWER than RB / Renault
     
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  22. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 jgonzalesm6, Mar 29, 2018
    Also just released, why is Williams slower than Sauber-Alfa......wait.....that does'nt warrant an investigation.:p
     
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  23. rotaryrocket7

    rotaryrocket7 Formula Junior

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    #23 rotaryrocket7, Mar 29, 2018
    Dalarra builds the chassis, however Haas designs the chassis & the aero on it. I think Sky was pointing this out on Sunday prior to the race.
     
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  24. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    #24 furoni, Mar 29, 2018
    Sour grapes from Mcheaters...they have a much bigger budget and keep making crap cars...suits them well and their crap driver...
     
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  25. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    #25 Dino2010, Mar 29, 2018
    Whatever is behind it, it is just shocking that engineers are able to make a car that is well balanced, powerful and doing great in Quali's, would make such mistake by producing wheelnuts that suck.
    That IS unexplainable.
     
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