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RM/Gooding's how to monitor the auctions?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by elads, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,637
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Richard,
    thank you for your earlier reply on my Grand Sport query and, again-
    "I'm

    Astonished

    that a 250 Cal is bringing this kind of money. It made absolutely no sense to me when they were $4-5MM (ignoring the CE $10MM car) last year in a wide-open market. I love the car and am a huge fan of barn finds, but still... just don't get it.
    I'm just a guy on the sidelines who is still receiving a failing grade in 250 Cal Valuation class."
    Cheers.
     
  2. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,690
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar

    Great to folow this auction with streaming video. I visited quite some auction and this comes pretty close to it. Only the atmosphere of crowd (thrilled air when bidding comes to unexpected moments) are not there. I bid on a car and the moment between my bid and the next guy was endless according to my wife...)
    Matt,
    The people who always comments on your cars like: I have a friend who bought it cheaper/better/nicer are the worst. I met quite a few of them and they never will own anything that even comes close to what you have achieved. Dont let them spoil your fun. If prices comes down enjoy the cars even more, while insurences goes down, you drive them with less nerves (although repairs wont come down a cent...) and you can buy more for your money (deflation). These terrible "investment only" people, those who doesnt know who was their car's designer/coachbuilder/engine type and designer etc will leave us and move their essets from cars to whatever is next on their list. And there is not much left as houses, art, juwels and companies all came down.

    ciao
    Oscar
     
  3. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    10,895
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Peter den Biggelaar
    I noticed that too. If I were the high bidder at that moment I wouldn't have liked it at all. Isn't there some auction etiquette that should prevent this?
     
  4. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
    11,854
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Onno
    Well, this is why I'm happy prices are coming down, Oscar. I'm passionate about the marque and now, if I'm lucky, I may just be able to afford a dream car that was out of reach a year ago. I don't go and gloat and point "hah, look how you lost a million" or something like that, but OF COURSE we enthousiasts should be happy that prices have come/are coming down. You have to wonder why these prices were high in the first place. Is it because people want to appreciate the cars? Well, partly. Mostly it is because people want to have something they can show to their friends and say "this cost $X million". To those people I say: Good riddens! But they'll be back before long - these things don't last.

    And remember - if you're a true enthousiast, you're not selling your car so what does it matter what the market says it's worth?


    Onno
     
  5. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    I'm shocked too the SWB we had in the auction should have gone for more than it in my opinion especially being purpose built just for Lemans for Chinetti's NART for 1960, check out: http://moorespeed.com/sales/cars/FerrariSWB1759GT.html

    Hated to see it leave my shop. Hopefully if it does sell down the road we can still take care of it for its new owner like the present owner desires.
     
  6. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,186
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    In the early 70's I bought a Fiat 124 Coupe from a friend and courted my wife in it. Years later I still have the friend and the wife. The car is, alas, long gone.
     
  7. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,234
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    I wasn't a serious bidder in this auction, so if I was actually there, I would have been sitting near the back anyway. If you were serious, I'd probably be up front with a paddle in my hand, and having someone fetching drinks for me. Since I wasn't serious this round, the on-line version was just fine, I did like that you could read the description (and keep up with the estimates). You could open the picture up to full screen, but I wanted to read at the same time. Still much better than watching it on TV, which I am sure it will show up on at some point. It was also nice not to have to deal with the fake/retromod/replica crap that BJ seems to be full of.
     
  8. mdsaxon

    mdsaxon Karting

    Sep 18, 2006
    237
    S.W. Florida
    +1
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    They had reserves. Reasonable ones in light of where the market is today. The reserves at David's were much more reasonable and David is to be commended for that.
     
  10. elads

    elads Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2004
    278
    israel
    Full Name:
    elad
    #260 elads, Jan 18, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2009
    Agreed, the whole Gooding's show struck of a touch more realism and value add. Congrats.

    Ill be in Amelia Island. Last year the auction was a tad hectic with random lots, i hope its a bit more focus this year.

    Anyone attending Retromobile?

    elad
     
  11. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    788
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    Mr. Cris Bertschi is attending Retromobile.
    I´ll open a thread in a few days with info on the show, and later on I´ll post pictures.
    Regards.
    Cris.-
     
  12. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    6,415
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Agree 100% It wasn't that long ago that these were $250,000 cars.
     
  13. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    don't mention it.
     
  14. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    16,473
    BaWü
    :)
     
  15. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jul 26, 2004
    15,014
    Full Name:
    IgnoranteWest
    Spot on. This is the first yr I've attended Scottsdale auction week, attended BJ, R&S, Gooding.

    Gooding was the best of all of them, overall IMO as an interested but not involved attendee. Auctioneer was entertaining when appropriate and of course the consignments were more interesting to me overall. Having both flavors of the experience to sample made for a fun weekend overall.
     
  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,891
    How much did the VanKregten 250 GT PF Cab Series II Serial No. 3093 sell for at Gooding's sale?
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,628
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Correct, and consistent with so many biased opinions and perspectives as to what the market is doing.

    I for one am tired of the 'scribes' telling us what the market is doing. Let the market tell us...
     
  18. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,891
    $380K plus Buyer's Premium?
     
  19. Cris

    Cris Karting

    Jul 27, 2004
    97
    Vermont
    Thanks to Cris, Jim, and especially Bill for the play by play/live updates.
    This was a fun thread...and now it shall descendeth into the bowels just like every other valuation-related thread on here.

    C'est la vie.

    Cris
     
  20. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    788
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    If anybody wants to post all the results I would appreciate it very much.
    I´m a bit lazy to copy / paste them...

    Kind regards and thank you very much in advance.
    Cris.-
     
  21. elads

    elads Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2004
    278
    israel
    Full Name:
    elad
    OK, ill try and say it another way, the fact that this car fetched the same price it did in 2005, indicates that it IS off.
    why?
    1. The market has gone up significantly in the past 3 years.
    2. after expanses - as Napolis pointed out - the seller is at a minimum 20% off.
    3. The Pourtout car, while fascinating, is not more desirable then the ex Tomy Lee (totally correct) 90105. But that's an opinion, not scientific evidence.

    The point of reference was NOT 30% from 3 years ago, it was 30% from last year, pls re-read my post.

    Joe, thanks for the elegant response as why you thought my post was biased.

    Im not driving the collector market lower, neither is Napolis, nor any other poster here.
    It will do what it will, but reflecting on the ebbs and flows of the markets should stay an open discussion.

    I would say that some collectors are looking fwd to buying the stuff they wish for at lower, and industry guys rather the party go on, grow to the sky and do a couple of back flips. Maybe you are right... and im wrong, maybe.
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    48,628
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    You were right...
     
  23. JTR

    JTR Formula 3
    Owner

    Apr 26, 2005
    1,501
    in a house
    Full Name:
    John
    Thank you guys for posting the price of the Boxer.

    Bill, I work on a dynamic positioning vessel. Basically a boat with 6 steerable thruster underneath to be able to hold a set position. We’re working on oil platform repairs in the Bay of Campeche, Mexico.
    I’m surprised that you have some salt in your veins!
    John
     
  24. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,637
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    John,
    Very cool.
    In my previous life, my second job was commercial diver. I only worked inland but of course had some friends who had been in the Gulf. I'm now an actor living in NYC and yesterday was in rehearsal for a play set in Galveston right before 'the big one' hits. 3 years ago, I was on a barge in Lake Erie for a month on an intake project and there's nothing in the world like being on the water for those sunrises and sunsets.
    Best,
    Dave
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    71,392
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Last year of production, although IIRC there were some '92s?
     

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