RM Phoenix Auction 275 GTB | FerrariChat

RM Phoenix Auction 275 GTB

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 410SA, Jan 11, 2008.

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  1. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,511
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    A
    Does anyone have any history on the 275GTB up for sale at RM next week?
    Their estimate is over $1 million for this car and I'm wondering if 275GTB's are are as highly valued as their 4 cam versions these days.
    Is this a torque tube car or not? I guess the serial number will reveal that.
     
  2. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    6,064
    United Kingdom
    Is it # 8749 that you refer to?

    http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?CarID=r201&SaleCode=AZ08
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    If the catalogue is to be believed this is an original alloy, torque tube, 6 carb, long nose, outside filler, bumpers removed (Comp?) car.
    1 of 10.

    I used to own one of these. Drove it 65K miles. On the day they lowered the National Speed limit to 55 as an act of civil disobedience I drove her from Boston to NYC in two hours. Mine had been entered (DNF) at the Targa Florio. Bought her for 6K sold her for 14K. (Wish I hadn't).

    IF this car is as described and I'd make VERY sure she is before bidding on her she's IMO worth what a nice steel 4 cam is or maybe more.

    Best
     
  4. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    6,064
    United Kingdom
    8749 is featured on pages 80-87 of "Rosso Corsa", a book on Matsuda's collection.

    A quote from it

    "The machine featured on the following pages is an all aluminium competition model. The "6C" in 275 GTB/6 signifies the tier of six twin choke Weber 40DCN carburetors, this being one of about 70 models typically producing over 300 bhp"
     
  5. DM18

    DM18 F1 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2005
    4,725
    Hong Kong
    How?
     
  6. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    If someone is SERIOUSLY interested I can help but it's a bit of work.

    Best
     
  7. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    513
    Agoura Hills
    Full Name:
    morris
    I'm a little confused about this car. After reading the several pages of B-S in the auction description I'm not sure what I'm looking at. RM strongly implies that this car is a true 275gtb/c whcih would make it a factory comp. car which it is obvoiously not by serial number. RM also implies that all a car needs to have is an alloy body, 6 carbs and an outside filler and it is de facto a comp. car.
    Wow, what a stretch, even for an auctions company. There are many more diferences that just these, including not the least of which is the serial number.
    So that makes it a 275gtb/6c, a completely diferent animal. A diferent animal of about $2,000,000.00 diference.
    There is a 6 carb. alloy body, outside filler cap car for sale right now for $2,1000,00.00.
    A 275gtb/6c just solld in Gstaad for about $1,2000,000.00 let's do the math and see what we find out.
    Morris
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Hey

    No question this is not a Factory Comp car but is it a Alloy/six carb/long nose/torque tube/outside filler cap as originally constructed? Were there only 10 build in this configuration?

    I remember seeing one of these cars with "Frenched" door handles. Looked pretty cool.

    Best
     
  9. barchetta

    barchetta Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    893
    The RM description states that "today", 8749 is fitted with an external fuel filler, larger than regular gas tank and slight fender flares, etc. RM goes on to say that they do not know whether these options are factory. Someone here must know how this car left the factory? If these options were not factory, how would it impact value? For example, a cut Daytona Spyder is only worth a fraction of a "factory" Daytona Spyder. Marcel, Old Guy, Ed Niles, etc., please chime in. Thank you.
     
  10. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    Was in Germany with Michael Schima from Hamburg in the 80s.
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,379
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    I did not get the VIN, but I do have a number of pics of an alloy bodied, 6 carb car that was practicing at Firebird Raceway.

    I'll see if I can find them ......
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,379
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    It's team mate was a yellow 250LM.........
     
  13. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    I thought only two cars fit that description. One was in an accident of some sort is not original (so I was told) and Todd Morici's car is the other. It's the outside filler, I believe, that puts it down to two cars (that are long nose, alloy body, 10mm lift cams, torque tube, with the outside fuel filler). These are what Chinetti used to describe as "boy racers". There are two 4cams done up this way was well.

    Steve
     
  14. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,432
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    It is gorgeous whatever it is....one of the most beautiful 275 i have seen .
    Alex , you should pick it up and enter the Tour Auto in april ..:)
     
  15. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula 3
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2002
    1,209
    San diego
    Full Name:
    Malcolm Barksdale
    #08749 is listed in Afieri's book"Ferrari 275 GTB/GTS as a alloy body, six carb GTB. Outside filler cap is not mentioned, it is mentioned for other cars so presumably this one wasnt an outside cap car when it left the factory. This serial number would indicate a long nose torque tube car. I would believe that the book is not 100% accurate though, as it lists my car as a six carb, which it isnt.
    So, ....Malcolm
     
  16. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    513
    Agoura Hills
    Full Name:
    morris
    According to my friends at the factory, Alfieri wrote this book without their approval and probably without their help. Inconsistencies would be expected. My car is listed correctly, but I'm sure many are not.
    I wonder how many outside fillers caps have been added after production to these cars.
    Well anyway it is easier to get rid of an outside filler cap than to make a 3 carb. into a 6 carb., from the point of view of the Classiche department.
    Morris.
     
  17. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    6,064
    United Kingdom
    In Matthias Urban's new book on serial numbers (The Raab Files Revisited) where many noteworthy historians have contibuted 8749 is listed as a Competition Conversion
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Not by the factory at a later point?

    Best
     
  19. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    513
    Agoura Hills
    Full Name:
    morris
    Conversion is a strange word.
    What exactly is it's definition? Is it similar to the definition of "replica" or "re-creation" or, my favorite, "continuation"?
    Morris
     
  20. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    6,064
    United Kingdom
    That is how I interpret it yes, done later not by the factory
     
  21. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    6,064
    United Kingdom
    Or at least not done by the factory in period
     
  22. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,942
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar
    Well, the euro vs dollar also plays a role in this. In europe an original alloy 2 cam is about 750-800keuro and that makes it 1.1-1.2 mil USD. And that's where they sell for. I think the description of RM is a little too vague about the competition details, but as I read it, it is (just?) an original 6 carbs alloy 2 cam, but believe me (and I know) they are worth it.
    Mine is also described as a regular 275, but it is for sure a factory alloy car! So there are at least 5-10 more alloy cars than in the files. Might be interesting someday to convert a steel one to alloy.....
    Oscar
     
  23. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    628
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Anybody there watching for this one, today?
    Mark
     
  24. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,451
    My guess is it will sell for 1.3 mil
     
  25. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
    BANNED

    Aug 22, 2003
    1,176
    La Jolla, California
    Full Name:
    Bill Noon
    This was one of our old cars. I had not seen it many years. Sold yesterday to one of this chat sites members. Very happy it will be joining his collection.

    Regards,

    Bill
     

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