road-going 'ALLOY' 365 GTB/4 Daytona - barn find

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Makuono, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. TTR

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    #26 TTR, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
    Re: 1) Most of the non-standard items appear to be some kind of aftermarket or later modifications of OEM parts. It even appears to have been repainted after it left the factory.

    Re: 2) Yes, you might be only one. Many often mistake neglect for "patina". Based on shown photos, this car will likely require quite a bit more than "$600 detail job" to get her cleaned, sorted and useable, but more than likely she's in a desperate need of full restoration.
     
  2. Maximillian575GTC

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    I very much agree -- was this thing still in Japan when the Tsunami hit? Looks like unfortunately flood damaged car now being passed along as a 'barn find in need of restoration'. The corrosion locations and the way muck is deposited around (and in) the vehicle makes me think that she's had a lot more unpleasant life than is being let on.
     
  3. toto70_0

    toto70_0 F1 Rookie
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    for me it is the Holy Grail of the Daytona's, tby the way his actual car made me join ferrarichat.
     
  4. isaydingdong

    isaydingdong Formula Junior

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  5. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    I agree with this, once you start bringing it back to life inevitably it will get to a stage where you end up restoring the entire car. Having said that the body doesn't look too bad but I think it would need a new wiring loom and comprehensive mechanical restoration done.
     
  6. Lussolover

    Lussolover Karting

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    More like years of neglect and non use will be swept away. This isn't patina, it's embarassing. Whoever owned the car through the years ought to be ashamed of themself. Likely could have probably driven it the whole time and gotten less wear. Wow. Hopefully someone will rectify this and halt deterioration, and get it driving.

    I think if you want to save a car off the road for decades and this is the best you can do please give the car to someone less inept.
     
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  8. Bandonbound

    Bandonbound Rookie

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    Great story but being the skeptic, something just feels wrong. Technically around 22k (US) miles, interior looks beat, and also it's because I can't have it! I wish the Roush book stated "alloy body." Also wish it wasn't up for auction in a little more than 2 weeks from its "discovery?" Does anyone remember what the parking garage Daytona several years back sold for? Was it in Chicago? Similar condition to a Porsche Speedster I think this year, 1955 I think, sold for double all the experts estimates! So lets see!
     
  9. silver1331

    silver1331 Formula Junior
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    Japanese car...the amount of rare cars modded there is surprising but to each their own. Originality is valued more in later years not the present and my guess is this car was modded shortly after new (70s/80s)
     
  10. The Red Baron

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    It still amases me how many idiots can not tell the differnece between patina and neglect. Theirs bound to be some one out there who is going to pay a premium for this once lovely car that has been mistreated and left to the elements. In my opinion the current value is around the same as any Daytona since the costs to get this back to the state that Enzo sent it out of the factory, as a master piece, will probably be more than another daytona again in price.
    Also to leave the car like it is would be condoning the neglect this car has endewered.
    Hopefully will be bought at a fair price and restored to what Enzo envisaged the car to look like.
     
  11. pappy.72

    pappy.72 Formula Junior

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    I would change the fluids (fuel lines, brake lines, and gas tank too), install a new battery, give it a tune up, brake job, new tires, and drive it as is...just to piss people off. Ha!
     
  12. TTR

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    That would be fine IF no other services or repairs weren't required, but having some experience with these and variety of other vintage cars, I'd venture a guess that a lot more will be needed before this is really useable and safe on the road.

    Just out of curiosity, how many major services including comprehensive brake, steering & suspension rebuilds (all which this car will undoubtedly require at minimum) and proper tune-ups, etc on this type of vehicles have you experienced or performed ?
     
  13. TTR

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    And then there was that Northern California barn/garage/storage(?) find Daytona few years ago, where someone actually video recorded and publicly shared their moronic first(?) start-up and prompt high revving stupidity.
    IIRC, that video was even shared on this site, but I couldn't bring myself to finish watching it.
     
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  15. Ed Niles

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    Yes, Steve, 14437. I should have remembered as I went to the 24 hours of Daytona with that car (and 2 others).

    I think a few of you are a bit too harsh on the owner. Many a derelict passed through my hands back in the day with no resto at all. Why? Because the cost of resto far exceeded the projected value. If this car got flooded in the 70's or 80's, its value then didn't warrant any serious work. Even today, a buyer who gets caught up in "barn find fever" and overpays may live to regret his purchase. What's a complete resto cost these days? Half a mil? More? And what's the value of a restored Daytona with alloy and no racing history? I dunno, but I say proceed with caution.

    Incidentally, I have only been through complete restos in my life (0434MD and 0515GT), and they cost way less than what I hear today. Of course maybe the standards weren't so high then? I came out OK on both cars.
     
  16. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    #39 ferrarip4, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pics of this "barn find"...

    Let's be realistic. Many have discussed the "value" of this car and argue that, because of the state of neglect, such car would not be worth the restoration.

    Let me chime in with some numbers to put things in perspective. Out of 1,284 or so Berlinetta produced, it's the ONLY factory alloy road car made, especially in the IMO most desirable "plexiglass" fixed headlight version. Even if it has had cosmetic modifications in the interior, these can fairly easily reverted back to factory spec in the restoration. If we estimate that an average sale value of a Daytona is in the $600K give or take, this car is comfortably above that value because of its uniqueness and I don't believe it is a $600K restoration work. RM estimates the value of this car between $1.7M and $2M, which in my eyes it will easily reach at auction. Let's find out how much the car makes in a couple of weeks...

    IMO, If I had a few million to spare, I'd certainly be bidding on it ;-)

    Maybe Marcel Massini can give his opinion on this as he saw the car...
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  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 Veteran
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    I know reputedly of one other. As a child in South Africa Dan Levine was a famous car aficianado and friend of my father. In the 90s dan told me of his daytona. Apparently Daytona production had already ended in I think 74 and he wanted one. Enzo had suggested to a complaining Dan who had bought pretty much every Ferrai model from 65 onwards that he should just go down the road and get a miura.

    Accordign to Dan in the end they came to an agreement. Enzo called in some engineer from the factory and told him to put together a daytona from the bits on hand. An leftover alloy comp Daytona body and leftover a comp daytona engine were fitted with an interior and shipped to South Africa.

    Dan told me that on a drive to what was then Lorenquo Marques now Mocanbique he had wound the car round to 8k rpm and a bit more, he said the speedo wound round the dial past 300kmshr. Later on the car had front end damage and was impossible to repair because it was aluminum. It was shipped to Uk and sold there.

    There was a photo on the wall at Dans house of the Daytona at the factory, the color was a puplish red which Dan said was a mercedes color called rot but looked to me like the curerent wineberry on some bently's.

    I could probably get copy of the photo from Dans son.
    Possibly as write the car was not alloy but had the comp motor, hard to say Dan was great racnotour but he sure knew his cars and had many many of them. In the 0s when i knew him as an adult he regretted of not keeping any but constantly trading them for something new.

    Dan as he got older started to move on from pure sportscars. The last two I remember in the 80s was a BMW M1 which had the rev limter removed so it could go over 165 mph, after that there was some modded 928. Then in the 90s there was a series of RS audis which he said were great because they were turn key go.
     
  18. TTR

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    Thank you for posting these higher resolution photos, which clearly show a car in a desperate need of complete restoration. They also seem to offer evidence it having received a re-spray, at least partially, once (or more?) since it left the factory.
     
  19. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Think it would be cool to do a mechanical restoration only. I'd even leave the dust.
     
  20. TTR

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    Yes, quite romantic idea, but I'd be surprised if in any sense practical and doubt the next owner will actually take that approach or even be allowed to.
    If anything, wouldn't be surprised if some kind of (must do) "Classiche" restoration is embedded to sale, after all, I assume the car is or must be "certified" to be included in this particular auction.
     
  21. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    If you want to download a full set of high resolution pics go to the EVO UK site: Sole road-going ?alloy? Ferrari 356 GTB/4 Daytona for sale in Italy - pictures | Evo

    Click on the fullscreen button and then right click to download the pics ;-)
     
  22. 246tasman

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    I remember being offered this car from Japan about 10 years ago, so it has been known about for a long time at least in some circles.
     
  23. Daytonafan

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    Petrolicious have posted a video interview with Marcel on their Facebook page where he states that 'it is the only Daytona in the world today with an Aluminium body'. Do none of the Series 1 cars and perhaps more relevantly 12547 still have alloy bodies, or have Marcel's words been confused in the edit?

    Cannot link directly to the video although presumably it will be on you tube and Petrolicious' main page later today.

    https://www.facebook.com/pg/petrolicious/videos/?ref=page_internal#
     
  24. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    #47 Marcel Massini, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
    The only ROAD Daytona (street car) with an alloy body.
    The others are comp versions.

    12653 was sold new 15 September 1969 to Luciano Conti, founder of "Auto Sprint" magazine in Bologna, and a personal friend of Commendatore Enzo Ferrari. Conti owned several special Ferraris in the 1960's (250 SWB and 275 GTB as well).
    12653 came to Japan in October 1971 as a used car.
    The car was featured in color in the Japanese magazine "Car Graphic", issue #128 of January 1972.
    Last Japanese owner had it for more than 37 years.
    I inspected 12653 in Japan end of June 2017.

    Marcel Massini
     
  25. harpersimon

    harpersimon Rookie

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  26. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    If Marcel says its an Alloy Road car and unique in that spec, I would believe him without a second though, he knows more about Ferrari than anyone else, I bet he has the build sheets and docs to back up any assertion too.
     
  27. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    #50 Marcel Massini, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Factory documentation.
    46 is the assembly sequence number.
    32 is the Scaglietti body number.
    I unscrewed several trim pieces on the car and found the body number 32 everywhere.

    Marcel Massini
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