RobzWorkz #3: 328 Basic Timing Belt Service | Page 3 | FerrariChat

RobzWorkz #3: 328 Basic Timing Belt Service

Discussion in '308/328' started by Robz328, Jul 1, 2010.

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  1. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Did you try turning the unit sideways?
     
  2. stevel48

    stevel48 Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2005
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    Steve (85 308 Owner)
    Yeah. I tried it all and was left with the options to pull the water pump, crankshaft pulley or undo the AC ines and pull it out from the top. I choose pull the lines and take it out from the top. I'll do that this weekend. I've wasted too much time and energy trying to swing it over the tank.
     
  3. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #53 Robz328, Jul 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
    Steve,
    I agree with disconnecting the AC lines. It should be easy enough to recharge later if you have an AC guy with R-12 (the R-12 was my biggest reason for trying to keep the lines attached; to avoid the EPA, have a pro discharge). If you can wait out the summer, you can postpone the recharge until next year (BTW, if you do wait until next year, just leave the compressor out and tape over the hoses until then...that gives you the room to work if needed...fuel lines, emissions and such, oh my!:D:D).

    Rob H
     
  4. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

    May 16, 2007
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    +1! With extreme prejudice! I've done it both ways and after doing it without the AC compressor in the way, I'll never do it any other way. Plus, it gives you an excuse to rebuild the compressor, buy a vacuum pump and gauges and do all your own AC work from now on. And be sure and check those AC hoses that run over the gas tank. The gas tank strap can chafe them and cause a leak.
     
  5. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

    May 16, 2007
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    Rob, chances are you know lots of people with R-12 cans stashed away that they'll never use. I've picked cans from people for free or for really cheap. Plus, you can take an online test and get your AC cert. and buy it brand new. There's also the option of using Duracool, which I think I'm going to start using once I've depleted my R-12 stock.
     
  6. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Cool!

    What's Duracool?

    And where is this online test?

    I'm sure that, here in GA, using R-12 is probably OK. Where Steve is, in MA, I don't know.
     
  7. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Suspension, parking brake and electrical threads will come shortly (after associated test drives/checks...I don't like to post an effort prior to testing the results).
    Rob H
     
  8. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

    May 16, 2007
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    Cert. Testing:
    http://www.epatest.com/

    Duracool:
    http://www.duracool.com/
    A local Fchatter here in Huntsville, Mike Charness, has been using Duracool with great results (according to a conversation I had about it with his mechanic).
     
  9. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Excellent!!! Thanks Rico!:D
     
  10. LennyZeutzius

    LennyZeutzius Karting
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    No Cam Seals?
     
  11. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

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    No prob, Rob. Keep up the great "how to" posts. I'm still in awe of your body work after the truck incident.
     
  12. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #62 Robz328, Sep 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    People are wondering: "How often do I replace the timing belts?"

    The attached pic from the 308/328 Work Shop Manual shows the interval for inspection and replacement. BTW, If you have removed the AC compressor, you can inspect more often if you wish. Also, if you just purchased your car, unless you have outstanding records of a recent replacement, I would change them just to be sure...then reset the time periods.
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  13. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    To replace cam seals would have entailed removing the cam pulleys. I did not want to do this without having removed the valve covers and inspecting the cams, etc. and adjusting the valves. This process is associated with the 30k maintenance vice a simple belt replacement. I do plan to do this in the future.
     
  14. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
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    Quick Question here... How do you rotate the belt system with the cam pullys locked? if they are locked would they not be able to turn?

    or are you saying that the belt will "drag" over the pullys and the tensioner will apply the right tension? I'm very confused????????
     
  15. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #65 Robz328, Sep 22, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
    (I sincerely apologize for the confusion in that part of the thread. Thanks to Glassman for noticing my error...Rob Lay was kind enough to fix)

    You are referring to the Birdman/Verrell method of loading the tensioners: since the pulleys are locked, rotating the crank shaft in the clockwise (forward) direction will not rotate anything per se, but will loosten the belt at the tensioner pulley thus giving it maximum loading without pushing on the tensioner pulley (do not push the pulley into the belt to increase force, the tensioner spring sets the tension). No significant rotation should be observed while doing this...no dragging either...just slackening the belt.
     
  16. NW328GTS

    NW328GTS Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    Rob, are you going to degree in the cams per the manual as well? Or are you just doing a belt replacement and assuming the cams are still set correctly?

    This seems to be the difference between doing a real belt service and just changing the belts. Degreeing the cams requires taking off the cam covers.
     
  17. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Right now the engine runs well. The cams should be fine. I just wanted to have new belts and tensioners. I plan to do a valve adjustment and cam improvement later.

    I will share this at a later time.

    It is known that belt replacement can be conducted at a finer interval than for the 30K maintenance, where the cams/valves are addressed. Other items would include ignition and fuel system upkeep.
     
  18. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #68 Robz328, Mar 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have since driven about 300 miles and now I am in the process of refurbing the coolant system. Since this was a good opportunity, I decided to check the condition of my belts. BTW the engine ran very well over the last few months.

    Below are some pics, taken before and after a mild cleaning.

    Are there any comments? I would appreciate any feedback before reinstalling the covers.

    Rob H.
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  19. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nice work and oh how I miss working on my baby's so good on you!
     
  20. forrest1

    forrest1 Karting

    Jan 8, 2011
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    First thought: Wow is your motor clean!

    Second thought: Is that grease oozing out of the tensioner bearings?

    I'd wipe those clean, though the pulley would likely fling it clear of the belts anyway. I guess that's why the inside of the timing covers get so grimy...
     
  21. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, Forrest. I was hoping someone would chime in on the tensioner bearings. I wiped them clean. I was seeking any comments related to the radially-distributed lubricant. There was very little, though.

    You mentioned the timing covers getting grimy, implying some deposition over time. Any other comments on this?

    Rob H.
     
  22. JohnnyS

    JohnnyS F1 World Champ
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    I'm not an expert, but it could a little grease oozing from when they got warmed up the first time. I would watch them very carefully and if it continues, change at the earliest possible date. I didn't go back through this thread but assume they are from Hill Engineering...?
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    They are SKF bearings and there is nothing to worry about.


    If you do decide there is something wrong I will buy them.
     
  24. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #74 mike996, Mar 14, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
    There is no such thing as a bearing so completely sealed that no grease comes out and you don't want that to be the case. When a sealed, bearing is operated and the temp goes up the grease expands - it has to go somewhere or failure can result. For that reason, sealed bearings are not usually supplied "full" of grease.

    There bearings can fail prematurely due to too much grease. I have a friend who was a foreman at a Dow-Corning plant that was having premature bearing failures on several of their machines. The bearings had removable seals on both sides and the factory called for them to be repacked every couple of months. So no one could understand what was happening since the bearings were "very well taken care of."

    After consultation with the machinery and bearing supplier they dramatically REDUCED the frequency of re-lubing the bearings and got normal longevity from then on. They discovered that too much grease in the sealed bearings caused the grease to churn and, since there was noplace for the excess to go, it increased the grease temp to beyond the correct working temps for the grease...and there went the bearings.
     
  25. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    Thank You, Everyone!

    I already replaced the covers and will inspect again in a year or so, when I do the fuel system refurb.

    Brian, I will keep the SKFs as well...they are of good quality.
     

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