News

Rock 'n Stroll . . . The Stroller Thread.

Discussion in 'F1' started by tifoso2728, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2005
    1,021
    Miami Beach
    Vettel will be challenging Perez in an improved Aston (Racing Point). Aston is gearing up, increasing budgets and the big teams are being squeezed by budget caps. Vettel will be back fighting in the top 5. Don’t count Stroll out either, if the Aston continues to improve they will be threatening Red Bull next year.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,391
    Maybe, but they have to stay in front of McLaren and Renault first.
     
  4. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,569
    BaWü
    While driving a copied and adjudicated car that was shown to be in breach of regulations. A clone and a cheat it is. They did not at all develop from base plans in their own factory this car. Not at all. They were fined and lost points. How that car can be on the grid again is ridiculous. The FIA had to move to prevent this entire cloning from happening again.

    Im very hopeful that Mclaren will be in front of them and Renault.
     
  5. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 16, 2012
    13,560
    Lk Stevens, WA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    They really didn't improve the car at all this yr. They started with a vastly improved car on the basis of cloning, after which they struggled to maintain any advantage they had over everyone else.
     
    stavura, ingegnere, DF1 and 4 others like this.
  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    30,950
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Yep. One wonders what parts they (get to) copy for 2021. If they get mostly the same stuff as the 2020 Merc they'll be a force to be reckoned with. Bought not build...
     
    tifosi12, jpalmito and 375+ like this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. simpen

    simpen Karting

    Jun 14, 2016
    130
    It is quite difficult to say whether or not they improved. The team made silly strategic mistakes, their drivers got Covid, both RP drivers could not get full potential out of the car (remember when after Hulkenberg's stint the engineers thought he gave valuable feedback after just one weekend? Apparently the much fabled Perez is also not that great at helping the team develop the car then...). Copying for 2021 is irrelevant as what happened in 2020 was exploiting a loophole, which is fundamental in F1 design. It is not like they deliberately cheated by for instance bypassing a sensor to cover up a breach of regulations. Letting that go by unpunished, that is ridiculous to say the least ;)
     
    tifosi12 likes this.
  9. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    633
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I thought that Perez was much fabled due to his driving abilities. I hadn't heard much regarding his ability to develop the car. (Also important, but I wasn't aware that was considered his strength)

    Was a sensor bypassed? My understanding is that the sensor was still functioning normally and taking readings normally. And the sensor continually came back with acceptable values. :p

    I think what Tracing Point did was more than exploiting a loophole, thus their punishment. They clearly had at least 1 part on their car (certainly more) that could NOT have been developed based on external pictures, and required the actual plans.

    Kevin
     
    Picchu88, Bas Jaski and jpalmito like this.
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,652
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    Hoping you are right.
     
  11. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    7,898
    I'm sure the fix is in.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    30,950
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Yep. One wonders what parts they (get to) copy for 2021. If they get mostly the same stuff as the 2020 Merc they'll be a force to be reckoned with. Bought not build...

    Except that it makes a mockery of the sport.
    The way the last 7 years have been..I'd be surprised if it isn't lol
     
    jpalmito likes this.
  14. simpen

    simpen Karting

    Jun 14, 2016
    130
    Do you still think the RP discussion is about developing parts from photos? They got punished for applying parts from which they did get the plans (legally), but put them on a later season car (which due to regulations change became illegal). The admitted confusion (by FIA) lies in the fact that they obtained the knowledge to build the part complying with regulations & that it is quite difficult to completely forget about this when regulations change and the part becomes a listed part.

    The sensor thing is quite obviously a cheating trick. The point of the sensor it to measure the limit of fuel flow, which has a set maximum for all teams. Aliasing the measurement is going out of your way to cover up the transgression of fuel flow limit. Admittedly, also very creative, but cheating nonetheless
     
  15. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    2,716
    Montreal
    #4562 ingegnere, Dec 31, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
    tRP didn’t get nabbed for putting a part on the car for which they “later got the plans”. They got nabbed for cheating.

    A team can’t build parts (listed or standard) if it’s not their own IP. And it’s illegal for them to receive designs from another team—which, BTW, is what Renault and other teams were trying to expose. If it’s a “standard” part and supplied by another team you can put it on the car. But you can’t build it from someone else’s design.

    What the FIA WAS able to prove is that tRP received brake ducts that were subsequently reclassified as “listed” and so instead of being able to use them as supplied they reverse-engineered the parts (which they had in-hand), built them, and claimed it was their own design. Blatant cheating and hence why they were penalized. The details of what happened are well documented.

    Unfortunately (for the rest of the grid) the FIA couldn’t prove that they did the same with the rest of the car despite the consensus in the pit lane that tRP’s claim of being able to copy another car (and making it work!) using pictures is ludicrous. Only the FIA’s Tombazis fell for that story, with Wolff handling the PR and spinning the false narrative of how this could be possible.

    As for Ferrari’s alleged transgression, and unlike with tRP, no details of cheating were ever communicated by the FIA so any assumption is pure speculation.
     
  16. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    10,019
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    It´s not cheating if you can't prove it....and nobody proved squat on Ferrari's engine.
     
    jpalmito, stavura, ingegnere and 2 others like this.
  17. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,569
    BaWü
    Yes, the situation appears enough was in serious doubt, that Ferrari accepted a secret settlement to avoid further issues. They chose indirect admission without yielding a guilt or acceptance publicly of a violation. There was enough to discredit the PU and force a redesign of it.
     
  18. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    7,898
    So who dropped a dime on Ferrari?
     
  19. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,569
    BaWü
    I dont see that as the issue. The issue is what can the FIA do to keep teams on the same sheet of music without a coin dropped.
     
  20. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 12, 2009
    2,919
    Saratoga Springs NY
    Full Name:
    Seth
    that is a wildly cynical view of the world. I murder my father but conceal it so well no one ever discovers is; that makes it okay, a non-murder? please!
     
    tifosi12 likes this.
  21. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2019
    4,765
    The District
    Full Name:
    W. B.
    I think Ferrari pled guilty.
     
    tifosi12 likes this.
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    46,652
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    I believe you are right. I forgot the details but there was legit proof that they cheated. It was obvious from the outside with their sudden new form. I mean c'mon!
     
  23. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    7,898
    What would Smokey Yunick do?
     
    ingegnere likes this.
  24. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2005
    11,989
    At Sea Level
    People plead guilty all the time to things they didn't do to make things go away...

    Not saying Ferrari did nothing wrong,... but negotiating a plea deal and admitting to something should not be confused with truth or fact.
     
  25. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,391
    Hmmmmmmmmmmm

    Having a class leading powerplant that becomes a backmarker after a second fuel flow metering device was installed, demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the Ferrari engine was cheating. The only thing unproven is exactly how Ferrari was cheating.
     
  26. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    30,950
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Didn't the FIA have one of Ferrari's engines for about a year? And couldn't find anything? And monitored Ferrari's engines since Baku 2018 if I recall. The only manufacturer that was told to run extra sensors after Mercedes started to get beaten...
     
    stavura, fil, 375+ and 1 other person like this.
  27. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,391
    Every engine in every car has the 2 fuel flow sensors. The first sensor makes 2,000 readings per second synchronously, the second sensor makes 2,000 readings per second at random points in time over that second.
     
    jgonzalesm6 and DF1 like this.
  28. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    30,950
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Ferrari was the only one that had them in 2018 and I think 2019.
     

Share This Page