Rough start/running/stalling issue. Tests to run to diagnose it? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Rough start/running/stalling issue. Tests to run to diagnose it?

Discussion in '360/430' started by ketel, Jun 18, 2021.

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  1. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    I would i order MAF if you see a improvement when you disconnect them

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  2. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    I feel invested in this effort!! Can’t wait for results…. Gl
     
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  3. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3
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    I have brand new bosch ones for sale
     
  4. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

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  5. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Results ??? :)). Holding breath!!!!
     
  6. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    Right now I'm struggling to keep the battery sufficiently charged to even run the tests I need to run.

    The battery dipped below 12.2 when I checked yesterday. I attached the powerpack charger and left it overnight. It's really hard to attach charger cables to these terminals; they keep flying off. The terminals seems especially chewed up and there's very little clearance down there to maneuver. May look into replacing the battery terminals.

    Sure enough, the cables popped off at some point last night and the battery read 12.2 again this AM. I reattached the charge pack and will check every hour or so to make sure the cables haven't popped off again.

    As to the tests, I reviewed the OM and I didn't find fuses for the fuel pumps, just relays. If I missed something and if there are fuses I should check once I actually have sufficient frikken power, let me know.

    ketel
     
  7. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3
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    Sounds like the BAT car is turning into a problem
     
  8. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    This wasn't a BAT car but, yes, seems she's fighting me every step of the way.
     
  9. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3
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    Either way high dollar cars don't mean its a better car.. but I still have new maf sensors if you want
     
  10. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    Sure. What would you need for them?
     
  11. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #61 ketel, Jun 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
    So... the powerpack gave me enough juice to try to start the vehicle. After a rough start, she fired up and she's now idling in the driveway. I want to give it 10 minutes of idling to properly set the parameters. But of course, I am not confident to drive it since I still don't know what the issue is and am concerned it will stall again in the middle of an intersection a few blocks from my house like last time. That was fun...

    Also, I can't figure out how to disconnect the MAF connections. I don't want to force it since everything there is plastic. Any trick to it? Some special secret release tab I am not finding? Again, don't want to force it or risk breaking it and having another $$ thing to now fix.

    With the car now idling can we deduce anything? Can we assume fuel pumps and relays are no longer the culprit?

    thanks

    ketel
     
  12. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #62 flash32, Jun 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
    View attachment 3164383 How is it running ?

    Do you have a diag tool to monitor the fuel trims and other parameters

    The clips on MAF ..you have to lift the latch from stubby plastic type latch and then pull the connector off

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     

    Attached Files:

  13. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Do not jump your car w a power pack. If you need a new battery get a new one and fully charge it. I’ve heard of bad things happening w jump starting and electronics. Not sure if a jump pack is same risk as jump start. But I would be careful. Very old and sensitive electronics on these quirky beasts.
     
  14. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    I'm fully aware of the perils of jump starting a Ferrari from my 9 years of 355 ownership. The battery is new and seems to be holding charge ok. When I use the powerpack I disconnect the vehicle's battery at the cutoff switch and then attached the clamps. I do not jump the battery and I don't even charge the battery when the battery is still connected to the vehicle (i.e. when the cutoff switch is in the run position.)

    ketel
     
  15. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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  16. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    The clip is on the underside ..needs to be unlatched by pushing ..use a mirror to look at so you can see what i saying

    How is it running now without doing anything but a relearn process

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  17. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    Update - so basically this day was a bit of a bust. I wasn't able to properly attach the fuel pressure gauge to the shrader valve. It just spun and never threaded on. The kit I bought had little instructions to help. It doesn't help that the valve is far back on the fuel rail and there's a rubber fuel hose blocking the way. So I was unable to check fuel pressure.

    Next, I was unable to remove the MAF connector to see how the 360 ran without the MAFs. The connectors are plastic and given they spend their life in a hot engine bay, they get brittle and I was concerned if I forced them they'd snap. If I'd learned anything owning Ferraris, if you feel like you're forcing something you're doing it wrong.

    But, on the bright side, the 360 did fire up and idle fairly well. So, what can we glean from this? Are the fuel pumps ok? Can we eliminate the fuel pumps as a possible culprit for the poor running/stalling last week? I think we can eliminate fuses and relays, yes?

    What's left?

    ketel
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The fuel pump power may be ok, but you can't discount failing/partially blocked pumps. Did you only check the car at idle?

    There are no specific fuel pump fuses, but "master" fuses supply power to the relay contacts and relay coils.

    e.g. RH pump fuses:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    These fuses also supply power to the ECUs, so very unlikely the fuses are faulty.
     
  19. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    Basically, yes. I just let the vehicle idle for 15 minutes. I blipped the throttle a few times to see if I could recreate the prior problem where the vehicle wouldn't go above 1000-1500 but it revved nice and smoothly.

    As to the other "tests" I'm at an impasse now. My fuel pressure kit will not fit onto the fuel pressure valve on the fuel rail. The shrader valve on the fuel rail is not the same shrader valve on the tires. The diameter is larger on the fuel rail valve. My fit fits fine on the tire valve but not the fuel rail valve. Is there a special adapter I need to purchase?

    Also, I have not been able to disconnect the MAF sensor connector. Even with a mirror looking underneath the connector, it is not intuitive how one removes it. Is it a push tab? Is it a tab that requires a flat blade screwdriver to push in while pulling on the connector? Totally unclear to me. Don't want to break it.

    ketel
     
  20. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
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    May 25, 2019
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    @ketel Here's a picture showing the clip. It's a push down the clip and pull it off but since it's a gasketed and sealed connector, it can take some prising with a small screwdriver to get it to come off.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    This is the underside. The bar with the two horizontal lines is the release. Push down on the two lines while pulling on the CONNECTOR. Don't pull on the wires or you're going to create a new problem. You should be able to get some leverage with a screwdriver to pries around the edges of the connector while pressing on the release.

    This particular connector is from a MAF pigtail, not a car so lacks the outer jacket and dirt.
     
  21. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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    Thanks but it's not budging.

    ketel
     
  22. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3
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    Put some man pants on it.
     
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  23. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Someone must be local to help this man out…. We could have this diagnosed in an hour if local…. Gl you will sort this out.. and the tools tips you are picking up will make this car your baby!
     
  24. FatMike

    FatMike Karting
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    Jul 4, 2018
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    It's just finger strength. Make sure you see where to press it, then commit to it. Do not use a screwdriver. Do not pry it or do anything else. Just pinch it very hard with your fingers and give it a wiggle. Once you get it, you can do the other one in seconds...

    Keep us posted.

    /
     
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  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Perhaps use a heat gun to warm the plastic to help prevent cracking?
     

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