Routing coolant hoses under expansion tank... | FerrariChat

Routing coolant hoses under expansion tank...

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by F456M, Oct 17, 2017.

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  1. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
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    Erik
    I have been thinking about the coolant system of the 550 and why it is so unbelievably volatile in the needle going from 65 degrees while cruising to 115 with high outside temp in stop and go traffic. Most cars stay stable at 85 or even up to 100 degrees (we are talking celcius here now). There are many hoses going into the bottom of the expansion tank. I remember one here had looked inside the tank, and one of the inlets continued to a pipe going up inside the tank... Can someone tell me which one? Since my car has always run very hot in traffic, I am starting to wonder if someone have put the pipes wrong on the bottom of the tank. Sometimes after the engine is stopped, while I sit in the car, there are strange air pocket spunds feom within the heater core. There is no doubt that there is air somewhere and I want to get to the bottom of this issue once and for all. I don't have the car here now, so a bit difficult to check it myself, but when I get back down where it is located, it wouldbe great to know this in detail.

    I attach a screenshot with the drawing.

    Obviously (from far left):
    1) the first is the return line (bleed line) from the rediator. This pipe actually goes down in the engine compartment and then up into te tank. Smart Italians. Air don't usually go down and up, but in Italy it might do..

    2) This faily thin one appears to go from the back side of the thermostat housing (?) to a vertical pipe under the expansion tank. -Can this be the one that continues in a pipe going up inside the tank? And why does it do that?

    3) This somewhat larger pipe is going back to the tank from the waterpump (overpressure?)

    4) This is, according to the drawing, a smaller pipe and is the return from the heater.


    The electric circulationpump is according to the AC hose routing picture also taking water from the thermostat housing which make sense as it uses the hottest water coming out of the block via the thermostat. Then going via the pump which looks o be like a typical bilgepump style pump to the electronic controlled valve which routes the hot water into the heater core if neccesary. That means that if it is closed, for example when running AC, that pump will run but not pump. I assume that is ok.

    Am I right here? Please correct me! Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  2. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
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    I guess the nr. 3) hose (nr. 45 in the picture) is the water fill hose to feed the pump..?!


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  3. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

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    Seems like what I thought was the thermostat housing was instead the duct on the top of the water manifolds... sorry for that. There is a steep learning curve here today...!!


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  4. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
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    I just read the long thread on Ferrarilite.com that Cribbj, Taz and Bill have written. Seems like there is a combination of improvements needed to fix the overheating problem. First of all get a nee radiator which is not oxydized on the inside. And reduce the anti-freeze + get better fans. Did you find out which Volvo which had fans that fit?


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  5. dersark_painclinic

    dersark_painclinic Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2005
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    Glendale, CA
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    Lazik Der Sarkissian
    You are right, In your diagram hose 1 and 2 are are bleeder from radiator and engine and hose number 4 is a return from heather. The all 3 stands heigh in the tank. The # 4 does not stand as heigh as the other two. The hose # 3 is the main filling coolant, starts at the bottom of tank and ends at the front of engine into water pump housing to starts filling the engine block first then the radiator. As far as not being sure about connection just follow the line #4 that should go through fire wall for heather. Having all the noises in the system probably you have more air than coolant. There is a tool called airlift for about $150 to fill the system and worth every penny. The bleeder hoses, no Mather how fancy they are, not going to deliver air to tank if the two small metal connection tubing at the tank, radiator are partially or fully occluded. Corrosion happens at metal levels not inside the rubber hoses. I would check those with small brush to clean inside. They are long narrow diameter tubes. And good luck. Sark
     
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  6. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

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    Thank you very much. Whqt would I do wothout Fchat......


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  7. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Here's a pic with the connections labeled. The one going to the water pump is (IMHO) in order to ensure the water pump always has a flooded suction and an NPSH.

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  8. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
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    Thanks Cribbj. I read your very interesting article with all your work and overheating trouble. Seems like the radiators weaken their efficiency after many years. I will do all the improvements so the car can cope with the real heat in Italy and France during the summers. I plan to keep this car for many years and it is well worth the efforts and money. These engines heatens up the interior so much that you need AC on even if it is not really a warm day. I am thinking about adding a third fan in front of the AC radiator to boost up the performance of the AC system and further increase flow through the radiators and add 575 fan and shroud. +less antifreeze and more deatilled water. Maybe add two big relays and separate wiring for the fans so the heat in the original cables are eliminated. That way I can also have a manual switch as an emergency and also to have for a minute of cooling after I stop the engine. For example if you run hard up a mountain on a hot day, and you suddenly have to stop for a traffic jam, an accident or even if the police stop you for some reason. I want to install two LEDs inside the car, so I can monitor at all times if the fans are running. Dave's steam line is also bought and is soon to be installed. Will actually try that forst to see what difference it will make. And change the internals of the radiator, as a new one is very expencive. That should do the trick. Also, a Fabio X-pipe is soon to be fitted in combination with my Capristo non-valved mufflers. Will be interesting to see how it sounds like! It has Hyperflow sport catalyzers now already. Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  9. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    All good ideas; but be sure to source relays with much higher than anticipated current ratings for making & breaking under load. The stock fans will spike a 60+ ampere load (each) momentarily upon starting, which will weld normal 20a contacts on cheap relays after only a few hundred operations. If you wish to stay with conventional relays Bosch makes a large 90a relay, but if I were doing it, I'd look into high amperage, dedicated purpose SSR's (Solid State Relays) as they've come a long way in the last 5-10 years. When my car goes back together, I'd planned to use one or two made by Hell Roaring Technologies: http://www.hellroaring.com/industr.php with a PWM pilot circuit in order to vary their speed. I had this type of setup on a car that had a single 16" electrofan, and it worked very well for years.

    However, SPAL recently came out with a line of fans with the PWM circuitry already onboard, so I'm going to give them a try first.

    The 575M shroud will probably give you the most "bang for your buck", as it's a full coverage design, unlike our 550 shrouds which are not much larger than the OD of our fans, and leave a significant amount of the radiator core uncovered.
     
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