I would ask that they remove any emblems, and just de trim the car. Ultra fine sand to remove orange peel, buff and polish. Re clearing is probably not the best way to achieve the appearance you want and would expect. By the way, I am in the automotive paint business and over the past twenty five years worked for Sherwin Williams, PPG and DuPont which is now Axalta Coating Systems. This procedure is also done when new cars have paint defects caused by acid rain and is an acceptable remedy.
Yes, and the DOI meter link was very interesting. It basically projects a test pattern. But we still don't know how a panel as bad as Traveler's F12 gets past this test, if they do it.
I think that is the point.everything you see in videos of quality control, men in red coats checking everything, is just a marketing myth. A blind man could have felt my finish and rejected it and it is the second time for the same problem. In short there is no real paint quality control IMHO.
Ferrari paint is actually very high tech with all that orange peel. The surface imperfections act like the surface of a golf ball eliminating the boundary layer thus cutting wind resistance.
I'm sorry for your problem and it is incredible that it happened twice to you in two consecutive transaction and it's clearly there, but it hasn't happened to many others. I have looked at my paint closely in sunlight and intense artificial light and cannot see any ornage peel, and I'm very picky. I'm sure there are some imperfections that my eyes or those of others can't see. Everyone comments on the beutiful red paint, what can I say.
They test the set up wih test panels not each car since there is no way to correct once a car is painted. Conditions constantly change during production, however this is watched very closely and adjustments are made. I have seen orange peel on new Ferrari and most all new cars will have a little. Some are worse than others. Sand, polish, drive and enjoy!
This was their last effort for me http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia/389643-poor-quality-paintwork.html Images are on page 3
So the DOI is not done on each car, allowing an especially bad orange peel to get through production undetected?
Yes, on two panels together with the standard issue orange peel particularly bad on the b pillars. I just found it extraordinary that they could offer a new car with panels that had been blended.
Maybe he could expect as good of paint as comes on Fords. The funny thing is that I sell New Ford's and we almost never see paint issues when the cars are delivered. Smooth and shiny. In the last year and a half only one vehicle has arrived with any sort of paint issue and it just happens that the transport truck got caught in a wind storm and it got pelted with debris. I want to say we have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 cars delivered in the last 12 month. Ferrari really should pay mor attention. Heck a $14k Fiesta has way better pain then Travelers F12.
Correct, the meter is used in set up. You could not correct this issue it once painted other that by buffing. If cars are off standard, corrections can be made to equipment to adjust final paint finish on subsequent cars. I cant speak for Ferrari inspection of paint or their inspection pocess. Everyone (customers) has different standards of what is an acceptable finish.
I have a F 150 and the truck has lots and lots of orange peel. UA Tuxedo Black. It is in the view of each customer. Some don't see it, others want high DOI and on a Ferrari you want the highest. Take another close look at any F-150. I have many painters who want to spray paint slick and complain that it wont lay out without some orange peel. To return the car to pre accident condition you sometimes have to put orange peel into the finish to duplicate factory look.
The following deals with Refinish and not OEM process but the condition and remedy are the same.--------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ChromaSystem™ Technical Manual 16. Orange Peel – poor flow, poor leveling, pebbling Description  Uneven surface formation – much like that of the skin of an orange – which results from poor coalescence of atomized paint droplets. Paint droplets dry out before they can flow out and level smoothly together. Causes/Origin  Improper gun adjustment and techniques. (Too little air pressure, wide fan patterns, or spraying at excessive gun distances causes droplets to become too dry during their travel time to the work surface, and they remain as formed by the gun nozzle.)  Extreme shop temperature. (When air temperature is too high, droplets lose more solvent and dry out before they can flow and level properly.)  Improper dry. (Gun fanning before paint droplets have a chance to flow together will cause orange peel.)  Improper flash or recoat time between coats. (If first coats of enamel are allowed to become too dry, solvent in the paint droplets of following coats will be absorbed into the first coat before proper flow is achieved.)  Wrong thinner, reducer or Basemaker®. (Under-diluted paint or paint thinned with fast evaporating solvents cause the atomized droplets to become too dry before reaching the surface.) Viscosity too high.  Too little thinner or reducer.  Materials not uniformly mixed. (Many finishes are formulated with components that aid coalescence. If these are not properly mixed, orange peel will result.) Prevention  Use proper gun adjustments, techniques and air pressure.  Schedule painting to avoid temperature and humidity extremes. Select the thinner, reducer or Basemaker® that is suitable for existing conditions. The use of slower evaporating solvents will provide good flow and leveling of the topcoat.  Allow sufficient flash and dry time. Do not dry by fanning.  Allow proper drying time for undercoats and topcoats. (Not too long or not too short.)  Reduce to recommended viscosity.  Stir all pigmented undercoats and topcoats thoroughly. Solution  Compounding may help – a mild polishing compound for enamel, rubbing compound for lacquer. In extreme cases, sand to smooth surface and refinish, using a slower evaporating solvent at the correct air pressure. Produced Due To/Or During  Application/gun adjustment.  Use/preparation of product.  Others: temperature/humidity.
Now that is interesting. Our Silverstone '07 F430 actually has very little orange peel, which contradicts the idea that metallics or grays can't be done right. My '11 458 in Giallo Modena has orange peel that is visible but not offensive and there are no exceptionally bad -- or exceptionally good -- panels. Uniformity is another parameter in the mix. It is easier to detect a panel when it is visibly different than the rest of the car.
Thanks for the information Gerard. Fascinating stuff. It definitely seems to me in Traveler's case the best course of action would be to just even out the CC.
It has already been discussed but anyone looking for a visual documentation on orange peel removal, here is a write up on peel removal of a BMW M5. Many new Ferraris are victims of either heavy peel or sanding marks from the factory, unacceptable but rectifiable. 95 Hour Detail by Oakes - BMW M5 - Click & Brag - Autopia
Seeing the car Saturday. It has been with the Ferrari specialist for nearly two weeks so interesting to see. Fingers crossed.
well said....if people don't take a stance and are stupid enough to keep accepting that and keep buying, they deserve the orange peel. Besides, Ferrari is much too busy nowadays squeezing every dime out of the market by sticking their logo on coffee cups and baby bibs that they don't have time to worry about making a good car.
Very good idea! Mazin is a top guy and I am sure he will be 100% honest about his views without going over the top.
Had a look at the car today and the repair is pretty good, but they have limited their attention primarily to the rear panel where it was most obvious and this panel now has the least peel. The air blades are still terrible as are the doors and I will try and post a pic. Mazin, who has now worked on 24 F12's, says he has three cars in the same colour and the poor finish is a constant which is too depressing. My dealer accepts it is not good and whilst I may be after a very high standard, it is their responsibility to at least get it to a high standard, which is great, but why should they take the flack for the Factory? Anyway long and short of it, off to Topaz for a full detail and orange peel removal and it needs attention in more areas than just the paintwork. Given the poor response so far from my paint survey posts, it looks like this factory standard is here to stay and we are the mugs for accepting it. Saw an Aston and Maclaren in the showroom and all superior. Seems like the only solution is to go for a three layer or any colour not painted in the factory. The dealers are in an impossible position. Draw the factory's attention to it and their retort will be well don't sell our cars then. Disappointing.
Even then the three layer is not as good as the others. The thing is, the others are not from Maranello. So those are your choices.
