Running on 6 (not all 12) after a major (sometimes) | FerrariChat

Running on 6 (not all 12) after a major (sometimes)

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by c4b4the04, Jun 29, 2019.

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  1. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #1 c4b4the04, Jun 29, 2019
    Short overview: Flew to FL to look at the car early in the month. Great looking Euro delivery early 88. Love the car, 26k miles on it. Drove great BUT timing belts were critical. I drove a total of 7 minutes on a test drive around the neighborhood. Arranged enclosed delivery. Car arrived and I drove to a garage where I could do the work. Pre-ordered the parts and swapped them with some help.


    So....that about sums up the last few days of my life....I brought my "BellaRossa" home last Saturday night and by Tuesday I had the motor out. Timing belts and tensioners? Straightforward. New alternator from local Advance Auto (thanks to the genius work here on the this forum) and a nice 2lb of 134 (with Ester oil) and she's all back in place. Charging perfectly, cold AC. Stumbling on 6 cylinders.

    First start and Test drive yesterday:
    Was just gutless. Thought maybe I had done something wrong on timing but it all sounded too smooth...After asking some questions and smelling un-burnt fuel passenger side exhaust (Euro car, no cats)....

    What about coil wire?
    The person helping me was a bit ham handed and damaged the 1-6 bank coil wire when it was pulled out. I repaired it by reclamping the bare thread of the wire and squeezed the connector back on.

    Today:
    Fired up on all 12 glorious cylinders, leaving a puddle of water out of the passenger exhaust that wasn't running yesterday. All 12 ran for about 4-5 minutes with a little higher idle. About minute 6 at idle I got a stumbling idle down to 800 and it was back on 6 cylinders. I had no option from where I was to drive it home 10 miles (long and unnecessarily complicated part of the story) and the other 6 came and went. Got home safe but now not sure where to start.

    Current thought is to throw a timing light on it just to see if I have spark from that module/coil. I have the Euro AEI 500 C coil with the two separate electrical wire plugs, not the later single oval one. I see the part is available as a whole piece (module and coil) here:

    https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/testarossa-1985/electrical-ignition/engine-ignition-31048

    I am very mechanically competent. It is just overwhelming to do what I have done in the past 7 days and still not be able to drive it yet. What should I be looking for? Anyone have a schematic of the Magneto Marelli ignition module? So many variables but it did in fact run on all 12 at one point. Heck, could have been on 6 when I test drove it, as I babied it.

    Should I be starting at distributor cap and look for carbon? I am assuming the car was 100% before I bought it, so assuming that something happened since I took ownership makes more sense to me.

    Open to ideas, really am leaning ignition issue on it, based on coming and going. Guessing old Ferrari electronics just decide after 32 years to just "die"...


    Cassidy
     
  2. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

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    #2 xplodee, Jun 29, 2019
    Youre going to get a lot of suggestions on what to check to start. Do you have any receipts for the car to know what was performed recently? Whats the mileage

    Did you change plugs?
    Did you measure resistance through wires while they were out?
    Coils are operating correctly or are they heating up?
    Fuel system serviced prior to major or during? What was serviced?
    Fuel pumps are drawing the appropriate current? Damaged fuel hoses were replaced?
    Fuel filters replaced?
    Connections to ecu’s on right quarter panel are all good?

    I’m just starting to learn the TR but this is some stuff that I have learned/experienced so far which can go wrong.
     
  3. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

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    #3 rpissm, Jun 29, 2019
    There's a lot on this problem. I suggest you look for a thread that talks about how people lose 6 cylinders after washing the car. If memory serves me correctly I think the recommendation is to clean off the electrical connector located below the coolant overflow tank to start, in addition to checking for spark and the regular stuff you mention.

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  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jun 29, 2019
    "Stumbling" and "6 cylinders" usually don't go together (as the TR architecture should run weakly, but perfectly smoothly, with a dead bank of ignition). First, do confirm/deny if the trouble is a dead bank of ignition, or not. What engine family F113B or F113A (by year, I'd guess F113B, but please indicate)?
     
  5. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #5 c4b4the04, Jun 30, 2019
    Its not a stumble on the 6, its just a big difference between the 6 and 12. Working on tidying up some things on her this morning. Will check today and report back. The 4 wire connector under the coolant tank is currently suspect. I think the ham-hand helped by pushing it on without engaging all 4 pins. That would certainly do it. Thank you for the tips to check there.
     
  6. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #6 c4b4the04, Jun 30, 2019
    Thanks to rpissm’s suggestion, I pulled the two connectors under the coolant tank and sure enough, one of the four pins in the smaller connector was not properly seated. Rubber showed marks where the male end wasn’t properly mated. Needless to say I’m not pleased at the help I had BUT I’m overjoyed with the results. About 10 miles of driving and the fouling from that bank seems to have cleared and it’s running strong. First trip in the car was to get some Amalfi coast Limoncello. Seems like a great first excursion.

    I am going to share my experiences doing the timing belts when I get a chance. I learned a tremendous amount in a short time. I do believe I could do it again in half the time.

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  7. rpissm

    rpissm Formula 3

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    #7 rpissm, Jun 30, 2019
    Sweet, congrats! Looking forward to your belt service info!

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  8. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

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    #8 xplodee, Jul 1, 2019
    Fantastic job! Car looks great too. Maybe lose the side badges though ;) haha.

    Would love to see pics of your interior and engine bay, beautiful car and congrats!
     
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  9. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    #9 Veedub00, Jul 1, 2019
    Just a reminder, you're going to scrape the front spoiler. Don't get too upset when it happens. It's part of Testarossa life.
     
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  10. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

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    #10 xplodee, Jul 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
    I saw in another thread that youre still have problems with running on only one bank. On Sunday my TR did the same thing and the problem stuck, which made diagnosis easier for me versus an intermittent problem. I know youre a tech and so probably know all of this, but here is what I did, maybe it’ll be helpful to you or someone else.

    1. check all fuses and inspect fuse box for burning or damage.
    2. remove airbox
    3. while engine is running, spray starter fluid into left bank. If it stutters, this bank is fine. If it revs, this bank is without fuel. If nothing happens, this bank is without spark.
    4. repeat for right bank.
    5. If the problem is spark:
    6. focusing on the bank that is running poorly, swap the connectors at the ECU’s below the right quarter panel then repeat step (3). If the results are the same as the original test, move on- ecu’s are fine.
    7. swap ignition modules only from one side to the other and repeat step (3).
    8. swap the coils only only from one bank to the next and repeat step (3).
    9. test/inspect/swap the crank sensor
      Inspect distributor caps
      Measure resistance through spark wires/extensions
      Inspect plugs

    If the problem is fuel:
    Measure current draw at fuse panel for fuse pump 1 and 2. I got around 8.5A on new fuel pumps.
    After this it gets trickier...
     
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  11. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #11 c4b4the04, Jul 5, 2019
    I'll ALWAYS take good advice, and this is sound as a pound. Thank you. My problem turned out to be the distributor cap button had dissolved into dust over 30 years. I just found it tonight and bought one from a Toyota that was the perfect fit. I'll put proper parts on later this summer but I just took a good 30 minute spirited drive and loved every minute. Once the garbage burned out of the passenger side bank, It really has some spunk in that old motor!

    Thank you for shooting back your system and results. Took me a few days to do some paint correction, window relays, license plate front frame and finally getting it diagnosed. Man, what a week. I just want to go to cars and coffee this weekend!!! Guess I can now


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  12. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

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    #12 xplodee, Jul 6, 2019
    Happy the hear that the issue is diagnosed and resolved!
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #13 turbo-joe, Jul 7, 2019
    what you mean with this?

    photo would be great
     
  14. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #14 c4b4the04, Jul 8, 2019
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  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #15 turbo-joe, Jul 8, 2019
    thank you for the photo
    never heard the word distributor cup button. here we says distributor charcoal. those you can make by yourself from electric motors with brushes. also here the bosch dealer have such things, only have to modify a little
    I´m surprised toyota has the same cap??? japanese use italian parts?
     
  16. c4b4the04

    c4b4the04 Formula Junior
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    #16 c4b4the04, Jul 8, 2019
    The cap is completely different. The cap is not what is interchangeable. Just the distributor charcoal as you say.


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  17. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #17 turbo-joe, Jul 8, 2019
    thank you for the info. I already wondered ;)
     

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