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Running rich??

Discussion in '348/355' started by hjp, Jun 15, 2016.

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  1. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2013
    591
    Kansas City, Mo.
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    Jerry Peterson
    #1 hjp, Jun 15, 2016
    I currently have my exhaust apart and noticed the interior of everything is sooty midnight black. I think this indicates I'm running too rich (I also sometimes get a single backfire after winding it up to redline). If I remember correctly, the color should be closer to tan if the mixture was spot on (that's the way it looked inside the OEM muffler tips before the cats were changed to test pipes....I'm currently running test pipes). If too rich, what can I do about it? Its my understanding the mixture is controlled by the first pair of O2 sensors and the ECU. Could the sensors be bad (They are the same ones when the cats were on and the color was tan)? Is this normal with test pipes? Is there reason for concern here?
     
  2. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    Lake Villa IL
    #2 INTMD8, Jun 15, 2016
    Not likely. This color is not indicating much, especially since you have test pipes.

    If you want to verify air/fuel ratio scan the car and monitor o2 funtion/fuel trims or install a wideband.
     
  3. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    #3 flat_plane_eddie, Jun 15, 2016
    My car is the same and my local mechanic told me it's normal for unleaded cars.

    +1 on the scanner. If you don't have one I can recommend the one I use but don't remember the name.
     
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #4 Dave rocks, Jun 15, 2016
  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #5 johnk..., Jun 15, 2016
    You should see the tail pipe of my Porsche. Black as tar. I clean it off once a week. Asked about it. Dealer said it's normal.
     
  6. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    #6 SoCal1, Jun 15, 2016
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    #7 Mitch Alsup, Jun 15, 2016
    Test pipes drop the engine bay temperature by "a lot" especially when you are "on it".
    There are a bunch of thermal sensors, one of which could "end up" telling the ECU that the engine is not yet up to temp, and to keep flowing fuel at the warm start mappings.
     
  8. emac

    emac Formula Junior
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    ernest
    #8 emac, Jun 15, 2016
    Like Dave, I have a KIWI that connects to my phone via bluetooth. You can record short and long term fuel trim, O2 data, coolant temp, and a lot more stuff. It may be useful to get one and see what you can discover. If nothing else, it taught me how the fuel system functions and adapts to various issues (vacuum/ exhaust leaks). Always fun to learn.
     
  9. jochem00

    jochem00 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2014
    344
    Netherlands
    #9 jochem00, Jun 16, 2016
    on mine with test pipes everything is super clean inside, but I hammer the hell out of the car which might be the reason why it is so clean.
     
  10. Drock28

    Drock28 Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,430
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    #10 Drock28, Jun 16, 2016

    the Kiwi reader looks really interesting..

    it says can read HP and Torque..but how accurate could that be..?
    did you ever look at that feature while driving.. it must be measuring it at the crank..

    **oops.. I just saw you mentioned did not try it yet lol..
     
  11. andrew911

    andrew911 F1 Rookie
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    Sep 8, 2003
    2,894
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    #11 andrew911, Jun 16, 2016
    Curious- how are your valve guides- have they ever been updated?

    Everything could be fine with the way your car if running by the way...
     
  12. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

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    #12 hjp, Jun 16, 2016
    Valve guides were replaced while the heads were rebuilt along with a complete valve job just before I bought the car less than a thousand miles ago. Cams were also degreed in at the same time. New Fabspeed headers as well.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 ernie, Jun 16, 2016
    Check your coolant temperatures. If it is running too cool it won't get out of secondary enrichment. You may also want to relocate the spark plug wires.
     
  14. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

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    #14 hjp, Jun 16, 2016
    According to the temperature gauges (oil and water), both are normal. Is there something else I need to check? Spark plug wires are located where they have always been. AFAIK, they are in the factory location between the coils and the valve covers.
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 ernie, Jun 16, 2016
  16. darrenliu

    darrenliu Formula Junior

    Jun 24, 2008
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    #16 darrenliu, Jun 16, 2016
    i had a problem with an o2 sensor which was causing the car to run rich. The tail pipes were black and sooty, but the exhaust just smelt ' rich' . Im running hi flow cats and i thought that was causing the tail pipe black and rich smell. Then i got the sensors checked and had one faulty o2 sensor replaced. The smell went away and the tail pipes lighten up a bit, but they are still pretty black. The fuel consumption also improved, confirming the car was definitely running rich before.
     
  17. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Lou Boyer
    #17 LouB747, Jun 16, 2016
    Hi Jerry, as you know my cars a 348. My exhausts are black and sooty as well, but my CA emissions check always comes up clean.
     
  18. andrew911

    andrew911 F1 Rookie
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    #18 andrew911, Jun 16, 2016
    What about oil consumption- do you notice much? (Don't overfill!! Aim for between min and max on the dipstick with motor running AND oil FULLY warmed up..
     
  19. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2013
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    Jerry Peterson
    #19 hjp, Jun 16, 2016
    Interesting Lou. This seems to be the consensus here as long as engine temps remain normal, the ignition wires are not leaking from corona and the first pair of O2 sensors are good. Burnt fuel additives may be what most of us are seeing.

    Ernie, According to Oz's instructions and chart, I fall between his 8 and 10, never lower, never higher. So I assume I'm OK. I don't think I'm running too cold and my LH fan never lets my temps get over 190F. Not sure about the ignition wires but mine are cable tied together and, as a bundle, stay up away from the headers. But I'll have to look at them some night when the engine's hot and its dark enough to see if there are any signs of corona/leakage after I'm back together.

    Darren, Thanks for the tip. Makes good sense. I'll have both my front sensors checked before reassembly.
     
  20. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

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    Bugtussle
    #20 ///Mike, Jun 16, 2016
    How do the plugs look?
     
  21. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

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    Jerry Peterson
    #21 hjp, Jun 16, 2016
    I just checked my oil before dismantling everything. Its right where you say, half way between min. and max. I've read the bad stories regarding overfilling the oil. As far as consumption goes, its about 1 qt. per 1500 miles (I also have a very slight drip that, so far, I can't seem to find its source). This seems to be within what the manual says is normal.
     
  22. hjp

    hjp Formula Junior

    Feb 23, 2013
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    Jerry Peterson
    #22 hjp, Jun 16, 2016
    Haven't pulled them but wouldn't they look similar to the rest?
     
  23. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
    6,097
    Bugtussle
    #23 ///Mike, Jun 17, 2016
    If the plugs are sooty or wet with fuel that's an indication that the engine is indeed running too rich. If they're oily there might be an issue with the crankcase venting or the new valves seals. If the plugs look normal then it's doubtful you have anything to worry about. Others here say their exhausts are sooty but the car passes smog, so their cars are presumably not running excessively rich, and their plugs probably look pretty average.
     

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