Russo and Steele From a different post: "It's clearly the same car between the two recent ads, but where is the documentation (VIN and mileage) from when the 155K mile car sold? If that is available, it should be included here for future reference. jwiner2 already linked to the relevant post: Rare QV... Short summary. Greg Jones sold it a year or two before 2003 with 155k on the odometer and a 328 motor in it for either on or around $27k. Florida dealer bought the car and rolled back the odometer (maybe they felt it was justified to measure the miles based on the new motor ) and put it back on the market for $45k." http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/442382-308-experts-anyone-know-these-cars-offered-ebay-seller.html I have no idea if this is the same car or not, or if russo and steele are to blame, or the consignor, which is why I am clearly saying "allegedly," but it sure looks like the same car thats been discussed here that used to have a Louis Vuitton interior. Don't auction houses do ANY due diligence? First, Artcurial with their alleged fake GTS prototype and now Russo and Steele with "Bianco over red leather and having traveled just 34,399 miles." VIN: ZFFUA12A1F0058767
I thought those things could just happen in Italy, but it looks you Americans are always a step ahead of us... Good find, thanks for sharing. ciao
ZFFUA12A1F0058767 Sold for $26,500 back in June of 2012 with 157,884 miles on it. VIN: ZFFUA12A1F0058767 - Ferrari : 308 308 QV Ferrari 308 QV . Image Unavailable, Please Login
ZFFUA12A1F0058767 Recently sold by the Sports Car Company, price listed as $59,000 Advertised as "1985 FERRARI 308 GTB COUPE RARE EXAMPLE LOW MILES CLASSIC IN WHITE EXTERIR WITH RED INTERIOR" 1985 Used Ferrari 308 GTB GTB at Sports Car Company, Inc. Serving La Jolla, IID 11693610 Photo from the Sports Car Company website. . Image Unavailable, Please Login
Always googled the Vin. Notice how some dealers stop listing the vin because they don't want the car searching public to be able to track the previous sales history? In the Porsche world its common for a dealer to get a car off Samba or Rennlist and the market it up 20% or whatever...
The shadyness (is that a word?) seemed to start after it went through a FL dealer. Then it has been passed around through dealers ever since. My guess is the dealers see a good deal with out checking to deep and then end up stuck with it until they pawn it off on the next one.
I think you will be well served to simply think of auction houses as a temporary, traveling wares peddler who (whom?) peddle wares that are not their own. The main objective is to attract as large of an audience as possible. To do this they need to create a smorgasbord of offerings because they have no idea who will be showing up. Beyond that....I think the phrase "caveat emptor" rules the day. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Amazing (to me) research folks. I realize it'd be a mammoth undertaking for an auction company to do this for every car, but if the wrong attorney got involved, cheap by comparison. I presume - but have no idea - that the boutique auction houses do more qualified research. R&S is a fine house and certainly didn't know this, but well, now they do... or should. Again, great research folks. You're better than CarFax!
Crappy if the miles were rolled back… however, that's an ultra rare car. Only 748 GTB QV's between 82-85'… and a white one with red interior and the rare red dash. There can't be more than one or two of those like that I would think. Cool 308.
Good point. With asking prices on these cars going through the roof I would think that there's quite a value difference based on these mileages, 157,884 (in 2012) and 34,399.
The white 308 was driven and used by Greg Jones daughter. I bought their sons 308 GT4 and Greg and his son were a pleasure to deal with. What the hell is the fascination in the Ferrari world with "30k miles" anyway? its like all the Ferrari cars, forever are supposed to have 30k miles on them LOL. I would love a QV GTB with a 328 engine in it, but not for today's stupid prices. I need to start looking for a euro QV again, as my Lotus was delivered last night. My 328GTS has 64k miles on it. I am sure its sale proof.
Even with a new engine in it rolling back the odometer is questionable (and illegal here). And unless the car got a complete restoration at the same time of the engine swap, the rest of the car has traveled much more than those 34k miles.
If your country is anything like the UK though, you can legally change the speedometer/odometer assembly for a different one and the replacement does not have to show the original mileage. In the UK, so long as you do not try to claim that the lower mileage is the correct mileage for the car and are open about the true mileage then you remain within the Law. Having read the advert for this car, they show a picture of the speedometer/odometer, but nowhere do they state that the mileage displayed is the actual mileage of the car. Before making accusations of Russo and Steele rolling back the mileage and misrepresenting the car, has anyone actually contacted them to query the odometer reading? It could be that they openly declare that the odometer has been replaced and confirm the true mileage! Yes it would be a bit naughty to leave prospective buyers to think that the odometer picture shows the true mileage of the car, but if they tell prospective buyers the true mileage then where's the misrepresentation? For Myself personally, I'd make sure I get all the facts right before I went around making serious accusations!
From the Russo and Steele ad: "Finished in Bianco (White) over red leather and having traveled just 34,399 miles".
I noticed this when I was searching. I now just assume a car listed for sale with 3x,xxx miles has at least 70,000 actual miles. Every 308 that FL dealer has on there site has 3x,xxx miles listed. What are the odds?
My apologies, I only clicked on the link in post #6 which makes no mention of the mileage. I had mistakenly assumed that it was the same link as in the first post. Would the jury please disregard My previous statement!
Heard back I'm checking into this.* Thank you, Chris Legg Consignment Specialist Russo and Steele, LLC Collector Automobile Auctions
