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Ryan Dunn dies in automobile crash last night

Discussion in 'Mid-Atlantic Region - USA (PA, DE, MD, DC, VA)' started by agentf1, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. Monto

    Monto Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2009
    368
    I still want to try and get the Ferrari out to see its limits. Can't do a track day, since it is a convertible. Any other events that would welcome me on your calender?
     
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  3. turbos7903

    turbos7903 F1 Rookie

    Mar 16, 2006
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    Michael. Maybe a ferrari event would allow. But honestly driving skill is driving skill and.it.can be taught in any car. Take a Skip Barber school or a bertel Roos school. The.principals apply across a spectum of vehicles. Jon
     
  4. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
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    Posted this in the other section but here is the latest.

    Blood Alcohol Content .196 (2x limit), estimated speed of 130mph.

    In the 13 years before his death Monday in a fiery Chester County crash, Dunn was cited at least 23 times, including 10 stops for speeding and careless driving and three more for driving with a suspended license.

    Among those violations — 90 percent of which ended in guilty pleas — was a 2005 DUI arrest. Charges were dropped when Dunn completed a probationary program, with suspension of his license for more than a year, according to court records.
     
  5. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    ...
     
  6. dlbutler

    dlbutler Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2009
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    I bet the bartender is worried about serving a drunk. It's illegal.
     
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  8. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    #31 JoeZaff, Jun 22, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
    the bar itself should be s&itting bricks.
    The estate of the passenger is going to have one hell of a Dram Shop Act suit.
     
  9. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Could also cost the bar its license.

    Serving someone until they're 2+X over the limit is bad, having them involved in a traffic accident or get busted for DUI is worse, having that person kill someone is gonna bite them in the ass.

    Insurer will wig out.

    PLCB will slam them.

    They'll be lucky to just get a suspended license and a fine.

    Sure was nice of Dunn to post photos of himself, in the bar, on the night in question, before driving at 130 MPH off the road while over 2X drunk.

    I did notice in one of the stories, before the folks at the bar clammed up, that they did not think he was visibly intoxicated when he left their place. We'll see how that holds up.

    The State Police do the PLCB investigating, as I recall, and they're not particularly understanding when it comes to dealing with the liquor license holder.

    DM
     
  10. Joe Mac

    Joe Mac Formula 3

    What's worse is that he was apparently a regular there, which means they knew of his propensity and they knew his past....

    Passenger estate will inevitably bring action against Dunn estate too. Sad after effects of a horrible decision on his part
     
  11. RealMCR12

    RealMCR12 Karting

    May 24, 2011
    88
    Maryland
    Can someone explain to me the law and how it works? I mean they are a business they sell alcoholic drinks and what not, but it is the customer's decision to do what ever they want to do whether they are driving or walking home. Is it the bars responsibility to ask everyone who comes in to see if the person drinking has a designated driver?
     
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  13. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    It's not that simple.

    Here is a pretty good explanation of Pennsylvania's Dram Shop Act provided by the law firm of Stark & Stark:

    http://palawblog.stark-stark.com/2010/09/articles/personal-injury/pennsylvania-dram-shop-law/
     
  14. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Passenger estate will probably sue everyone from Porsche NA, the bar, the estate, and anyone else dopey enough to have left a fingerprint on the entire affair.

    Really nasty ending to a bad story all around.

    Having owned a bar (The Berwyn Tavern) I can tell you firsthand that the PLCB and State Police will have a field day with this one.

    Barnaby's has four locations, so there's a pretty good sized bunch of liquor licenses at stake, along with, I'm sure, a thorough look at their practices chain wide in PA.

    Not gonna be fun.

    The insurance company will run from this one as fast as they can, which means they'll be looking at a huge increase in premiums, if they can find an insurer at all after this.

    That and the Dram Law, which BTW, is interesting all in itself. Visibly intoxicated? Hell, for one person that might be well under the legal limit, for a hard core drinker, that could be 2X the limit. And, here's the other issue. If you tell someone who walks into your bar drunk that you won't serve him, and then you send him back out the door, you're still partially liable for what he does after he leaves your place. But, can I force you to sign a waiver, or call a cab if I won't serve you? Hell no.

    It's a truly imperfect system.

    My kids went out together the other night, after having a few beers at home. THEY TOOK A CAB. not hard to do, makes things a LOT safer for everyone.

    Ugly stuff.

    D
     
  15. MPalilonis

    MPalilonis Karting

    Sep 30, 2003
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    Mike
    Ryan was a good guy, he knew many of my BMW clients that have hopped up Bimmers mostly because they brought their cars to him at Bimmerworks in WC. The GT3 he had was no bare bones car, the motor was built more for the track then the street. He will be sadly missed by all. RIP Ryan!
     
  16. Monto

    Monto Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2009
    368
    Jon, I have taken a Bondurant course in Phoenix and done a few track days with the Maserati. I feel I know its limits and can feather the turns and stay in control. That is a front engine car and the F355 has a reputation of a loose rear end. I wanted to find out how close I can get to the limits in that car in a safe location so I know what it feels like.

    This discussion is now moot in this thread since alcohol played a part in the event and driving skill wasn't the issue, but I am still interested. Don is doing an event Saturday that might be the ticket, but we will be a the shore.
     
  17. Joe Mac

    Joe Mac Formula 3

    Wasn't PA law actually revised a month or so ago (revised from what Joe Zaff circulated) to allow criminal charges to be filed as well with strict liability hurdles?
     
  18. Barry@PresidentialDetails

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    Nov 7, 2009
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    Ya know this is a sad case for everybody involved. The horrible part of this devastation is it happens all the time. Its a shame that it takes a famous gentleman to have people get involved. Ryan has obviously been charged before with this crime. This time it took his life and anothers. There are reasons the law prohibit's us as a citizen of commonwealth, state, or country to drink a controlled substance and drive. Impairment begins with the first drink. This could happen to anyone who drinks and drives. While we all love our cars and love to drive them. Just like anything else in life there are consequences for our actions. Ryan paid the ultimate price. His Life. Im sure he was a great guy, but he obviously needed help. Its a shame it wasn't there for him. Impairment can be dangerous, lets just hope this tragedy opens another eyes. My prayers go out to the familys of the horrible incident. God willing may there souls rest in peace. This is a sad situation that could have been prevented. Some people can drink while others just shouldn't.
     
  19. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well said
     
  20. Barry@PresidentialDetails

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    Thank You. I am one that knows first hand the true affects of alcohol. I speak from experiance. I binged heavy for several years of my life. I almost lost my wife over it. Something Im not proud of, but something I have learned from. I am one who just shouldn't drink. Under the influence I'm arrogant and uncontrollable. I truley am a menace to society when I drink. By the grace of god and help of others I have been sober for over 6 years. Im 33. I'm blessed that my son has never seen me intoxicated. He is 4. My family and life are far more important then any drink or controlled substance. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the times I had, but learned from them as well. Alcoholisom was just a symptom for me. Sometimes people just need to open up and tell somebody. It could change there life. I'm very active in a fellowship that helps others. While I have been blessed to have a career I highly enjoy, a family who are the love of my life, none of its possible if I choose to drink. I have a many friends who can drink in moderation or simply put know when to stop. Myself I am not one. Once I drink the races of devastation begin. Storys like this really hit home for me. Man I just feel bad for all those affected by this. A sad case for everyone.
     
  21. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    #43 dm_n_stuff, Jun 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You guys tell me.

    Ryan Dunn is in your bar, he looks like the photo below (taken in the bar that evening,) would you serve him? would you throw him out? would you beg him to call a cab?

    Looks pretty flagged to me, visibly intoxicated? I'd say so.

    Photos like this will cook their goose.

    D
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
    5,180

    Great post.
     
  23. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    Apparently, the video taken from the bar corroborates the bartender's position that he was not visibly intoxicated. Furthermore, the last few drinks that he had before he left---the ones that apparently put him over the top, were not served by the bar, but by fellow patrons.

    It is on this basis, that police have elected not to criminally charge the bar.

    Of course, that won't stop a lawsuit, but this is not the clear cut case one would first believe.
     
  24. turbos7903

    turbos7903 F1 Rookie

    Mar 16, 2006
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    +1000.
    And for the courage to come online and say something about it and risk judgement. Good for you Barry!! Jon in Delaware
     
  25. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    If they have THAT on video then they're extremely lucky.

    But, take it from first hand experience, that won't absolve them from guilt with the PLCB.

    As the bartender, you're responsible for whatever you serve. Sounds stupid, right? But, unless they have video, no patron who helped get the guy drunk enough to kill is going to admit buying that drink. It makes them culpable.

    We had EXACTLY this scenario at our bar. I ended up paying BIG bucks to the PLCB, and to the woman who got hit by our patron, even though his BOSS bought him the drinks. The boss denied it, the kid changed his story when he figured out he was screwed either way and didn't want to lose his job by getting his boss nailed.

    Bottom line, maybe no criminal charges, but the civil suits are gonna be flying everywhere.

    D
     
  26. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
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    Do you own a bar Dave?

     
  27. blown daytona

    blown daytona Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2008
    1,620
    maryland
    Bottom line.....Ryan Dunn is a JACK ASS
     
  28. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Did for about 6 years.

    Worst business experience I EVER had.

    1st manager got killed by an Amtrack train the day before we were supposed to open.

    2nd manager stole a week's receipts from me by opening a parallel business account and sending me phony deposit receipts. He spent a day in jail, just long enough to convince him to pay us back. Still took 3 years to get all the money.

    3rd manager thought that BJs were an obligatory part of employment for the women who worked for him. He also tended to take interesting polaroids, which I found one Saturday morning ON THE BAR, when I went in to check the Friday night receipts.

    Had a cook who drank, a lot, but managed to keep it together until he fell out the front door and broke his leg one night.

    Found coke on the toilet tank top on more occasions than I can remember.

    Fired all my bartenders one weekend after I put a spotter in the bar who caught them ALL stealing receipts.

    Was paying the bills and saw 20lbs of Roast Beef on a provision bill. I figured "GREAT, hot roast beef sandwiches for tonight's special." Went to the bar that night and ordered one. The waitress said, "We don't have that on the menu tonight Dave." I went in the kitchen, and found out the day cook had ordered it for a party HE WAS THROWING at his house that evening. Worst part? None of us were invited!!! and he sure as hell wasn't gonna pay me back for it.

    Had the owner of the business next door sneak in an underage employee of his, get him drunk, load him in his car and send him home. Would have been fine except for the little old lady he rear-ended on the way home. They found him, and his car, down a 50 foot embankment. PLCB loved that one, cost me $10K.

    I could go on and on. Let's just say that owning a bar made me quit drinking. Haven't touched a drop since.

    D
     

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