Safe to downshift in a MANUAL F430?

Better on the clutch and drive train (cv's, diff, etc) to match the revs - plus more fun.

 

I just give a quick blip of the throttle with the outside of my right foot when braking to raise the revs before pulling the clutch in.

 

You can downshift from sixth all the way down to first if you match the revs properly. You definitely don't want to downshift without matching the revs though; practice blipping the throttle to match those revs. You'll "get it" in no time, and you'll have so much fun doing it, you'll wonder how you went this long without it.

 

I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience in a manual?

Yes, it's absolutely safe for the gearbox and engine (provided of course you select the right gear for the speed of the vehicle) but not only that .... it's far safer than not doing it because you will be in the right gear when the time comes to apply power.

It is not necessary to throttle blip or rev match to go down the box as you brake and slow for corners. That said, mastering the technique, including heel+toe braking and throttle control can be rewarding and will keep the car more poised.

Practice makes perfect, enjoy it, master it, but rest assured you'll not be causing undue wear to your engine or gearbox.

 

MR X you did well asking this question. You have in your hands the most injoyable car because it's a F430 manual Before even considering the heel/toe or toe/toe technique which can be dangerous on open roads, try to take the habit of giving a good blib with the throttle just before downshifting and depressing the clutch. Just follow this sequence :
- press the clutch
- move the stick in neutral
- give a good blib with the trottle (higher blib is needed if you're slowing down enough the car)
- downshift
- depress the clutch

Downshifting and depressing the clutch should be done before the rpm's are falling back which is happening very fast on the F430.If you're not fast enough, you should blib much higher in revs. Example: if the rev match must be at 4.000 rpm, you should blib at least at 6.500 rpm the time needed to downshift and release the clutch. Progressively, you'll reduce the blib as you'll downshift faster. Then the next stage will be to downshift 2 gears at once and blib high enough to obtain a perfect rev match This is very useful when driving hard on mountain roads, right before entering a sharp turn for instance.

Once you feel comfortable enough with this technique and you're able to do this in an eye blink, you can start adding the braking while give the blip simultaniously.

After a lot of practising, you'll discover that manual gearing on a F430 is magical And you can reduce shifting up to 500ms after some time (something I do easily - and checked by a friend with a chono). If done well, the clutch can last a very very long time. At 50.000km, mine is still biting like a new one and I wouldn't be surprised that it will last up to 75.000 km. We'll see

ENJOY

 

One aspect of "properly" is whether it is even possible to match the revs. If the speed you're traveling at is greater than the redline speed of the gear you're about to engage, the result will be a mechanical over rev when you release the clutch.

 

There is another reason to down shift with matching revs: I once was driving a friend’s 550 on the track. I was hard on the break and shifted from 3rd to 2nd. I shifted quite fast but did not blip the throttle. The result was that I had no matching revs and the car turned around (there was a lot of space around, so nothing happened).

The reason is the following: If you are fully on the break the tires are at their limit. If you now shift one gear down without matching revs the engine will have some breaking force as well. Together with the break this may be too much and the rear wheels will block. Blocking rear wheels always turn the car.

This is the real reason (besides of having fun) why you should change gears with matching revs when you are hard on the break at the same time.

The F1 system does this for you if you are in sport or race mode. In a manual you have to do this by yourself (heel/toe or toe/toe technique).

Markus

 

Redshifted is making a very important point about over revving the engine!

When downshifting the electronic governor on the engine will not protect it from going way beyond redline.

I’m not sure of the exact rpm / speed correlation but it works something like this:

If max speed at 8500 rpm in first gear (red line) is 60 mph and you’re in second gear doing 80 mph and down shift into first the speed of the rear wheels turning at 80 mph are going to force the motor to spin at much higher rpm than the 8500 rpm red line. The motor could end up spinning at 9000 to 10,000rpm with disastrous consequences. (The motor may explode throwing the connecting rods or pistons out the bottom of the engine block).

That being said if you pay attention to engine speed versus road speed it perfectly safe to down shift a manual car. I do it with mine all the time and there’s nothing that will bring a bigger smile to your face when you get it right!

That one of the advantages of the F1 system, it removes the possibility of driver error when shifting causing major engine damage. The electronics will not let the engine over rev up or downshifting.

 

I think by "all the way down" he meant going through 5-4-3-2 before putting it in 1st.

The only car I've downshifted from top gear into 1st in is a 4-speed Porsche 930 where the gearing is so tall and the lag so bad that it's necessary on slow freeway interchanges and other rare instances. Other than that, I can't think of a single time when I've downshifted from top gear into first in any car without dropping into neutral (effectively double-clutching) or at least one gear in between.

 

+1

it's safe to do it without but matching revs is just so satisfying

 

It sounds like you shifted with the wheel turned. This will always upset a car, rev matched ot not.

Dave

 

Yes, but there is also double clutching (or double declutch) to add to the heel and toe
I was taught this by my father 30 years ago and it invloves releasing the clutch pedal when you go back to neutral before the rev to match the rpm to incoming gear.
Reason is to spin the input shaft (or layshaft as my dad called it). This only happens if the clutch is let out.
This eliminates the strain or wear on the gear synchros as well as the other benefits allready mentioned.
I can shift gears (up and down) in all my cars tractors and my 360 without even using the clutch...not that I do it regularly!
Adds a little bit more time to the change, but I like the fact the synchros are barely used...and it sounds cool too.
Hope this makes sense as most people I drive with dont really understand the principal and keep their foot on the clutch when they the rev.

 

One word: blip.

Life is good.
Life is better driving a Ferrari.

May the horse be with you.

 

The revs really do fall off quickly in these F430s it seems. Those with manuals, you all do the rev matching/blipping on downshifting? Any other tips specific to this car? I've noticed it does shift a bit better in Race mode, and at the higher RPM range. Trying to make sure I don't do anything dumb, and also have as much fun as possible.

 

Any performance vehicle with a lightweight flywheel will do that.
Just like since the days of the Model A Ford.
Why would it shift better in race mode with a manual transmission?

 

@Rifledriver, the throttle curve is a little snappier in race mode, no? Which would mean you can get the revs up with less pedal travel. (Which I prefer.)

@oc23, I think you'll find it much easier to downshift a car like this once you get the hang of it. Because the throttle response is so crisp, it's easier to match the revs than in a car where the engine has a more inertia. But it does mean you need to be a little quicker with the whole process. Wait too long to start your blip after you dip the clutch and your revs drop, making it harder to "feel" for the right revs. Wait too long to release the clutch after your blip and you've defeated the purpose; the revs will drop before the clutch is engaged.

With a little practice, you'll nail it. And it will be oh so satisfying!