Saving a Scuderia | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Saving a Scuderia

Discussion in '360/430' started by rmarchjr, Aug 19, 2015.

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  1. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #76 rmarchjr, Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you everyone for ur kind words and positive thoughts.
    Kevin- I'm not giving up on the fenders, but I did order the "front central lining"- piece that connects the 2 fenders, don't feel like trying to shape that. this car is like a big ball of clay at 350 deg, very easy to fix with a few metal skills. And its a great excuse to play with oxy/acetylene.

    Replacement part for the front right side trunk brace was sourced from a breaker, good quality as promised. Both Ferrparts and Exotic have done well, both have sent things either damaged or wrong but both companies have stood behind what they sold and made any wrongs right.

    it has taken a bunch of time but I have cut away all deformed aluminum castings, then trimmed the replacement parts, measure/trim, measure/trim, you get the idea. Almost there. The hood actually closes properly, but have not gotten the hood gaps quite right. I have not moved the hood from its original mounting position because it is not bent or twisted so it is one guide for where the fender should sit. It is pretty cool to see how the car responds as each damaged piece is removed or straitened. The car's skin is slowly moving back into its original place. I think I got lucky again-the right fender, which is held in place with about 5 or 6 bolts and 80# of seam glue, cracked most of the glue but did not rip at any bolt. It needs to be cleaned, adjusted, primed and glued back in place, but first 11 harness connectors/ecu's to disconnect and some tack welds... and a lot of measuring. With a little luck she may just get her 1st shakedown run at NJMP next weekend. I can't wait to drive this thing. New Radiator, condenser, and repurposed fan assembly have arrived.
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  2. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    DOnt forget in the end to tell us the total cost of the operation, it will be nice to know how much u can save tween this and buying a non totaled one
     
  3. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    Today I am on budget, but definitely a bit behind my initial schedule. I will not be able to test the car next weekend. Some of you have pointed out that I have not revealed the costs involved, and I have had many PM's about it. I do intend to post it all at the end of the project. I can say at this point that I am confident that the project will come in at 50-60% of the cost of a 3400 mile Scud at today's prices.

    The two goals of this post have been to document the work for myself, and also to show people that these cars can be worked on by normal humans. If one has the time and inclination most jobs are not very different then in any "normal" car. With a computer we all have access to Workshop manuals...thanks to the ferraridatabase, and parts diagrams...thanks to Recambi, and mechanics...thanks to this website. No question Ferrari has done some very special things in the design and construction of these cars. The aluminum body and structure is truly impressive, and considering it was first produced in 1999. Way ahead of its time and also fairly easy to fix with a little knowledge and patience. I hope that someone reading this will choose to find a special car and save it from becoming a beer can! One really important consideration is project car selection and the initial damage, always assume the worst and definitely consult with someone who has repaired the model your considering buying.

    So the car aligned but is it really strait. Since I'm not in this for the money and I really want to know 100%, what's the next step? If Ferrari were kind enough to give us, their customers/owners, frame alignment specs it would be easy. They do not. It appears that even if one were to go to the expense of buying a Celette bench, the tooling is proprietary and not sold except to authorized body shops. Not really an option for me.

    Here's my plan - I am lucky enough to own another F430 manual car that I know has never been in an accident. I also have a friend with a Genisis2 alignment machine. After discussing it in gory detail we decided to put the 430 on the machine and build out our own frame specs. Then we can put the Scud on the table, check for movement, and if necessary correct it. Either way I will know with absolute certainty that my car is right. What a giant PIA.

    Right now I am planning on using the A frame mount points, the fender mount points, shock tower points, door mount points, and a few of the more critical holes on the underside for the reference plane. With a bit of luck if we hit enough of them we will have good data that can be utilized for this and some other projects as well. In the mean time I have been able to fix the broken rear bumper, evacuate the air conditioning system, and convert a left hand fan assembly to a right hand fan assembly. The fans themselves are directional but the housings are the same except for a cutout for the temp sensor. The motors are mounted in the fans. Unfortunately the housings are not available as separate parts so a damaged housing (plastic) would cost about $900 to replace even if the motor were good. Of course I couldn't find the side I needed used so purchased the wrong side, cut a new sensor hole, plugged the existing, and put the original fan in. Total cost $400 - thank you ebay!
     
  4. MaseratiCorse

    MaseratiCorse Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2014
    472
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    Kudos to you my friend! Sensational work! :)
     
  5. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    You're sensational in effort and will
     
  6. MARMIST

    MARMIST Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2014
    1,338
    You're sensational in effort and will
     
  7. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    17,861
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    Thanks for sharing your work progress with us here. Continued good fortune as you bring this Scuderia back from the dead!
     
  8. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
    24,440
    Honolulu
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Great update!
     
  9. Chiaroman

    Chiaroman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 21, 2004
    1,685
    New Jersey
    +1
     
  10. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #85 rmarchjr, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It been some work removing parts from the 430 in order for the laser measuring of the frame but the day will be here tomorrow. With a little luck and work by midnight I should have accurate detailed frame specs to measure this or any other damaged 360/430 against.

    I did some tests with MIG spool Al/Si 4043 vs TIG Al/Mg 5356 and hands down the TIG was better in every way. Stronger better penetrating and nicer looking. The 5356 is a stronger alloy by nearly 50% both in longitudinal and traverse shear strength and as the area in question will never see a "service" temp higher then 150 deg F, it seems like the best way.

    Unfortunately I have no TIG skills and I wanted to be sure the welds were good so I brought in an aircraft certified welder to graft in the new trunk support pieces. Here is what we used to do the work.
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  11. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #86 rmarchjr, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. martiy1971

    martiy1971 Formula Junior

    Jun 2, 2015
    647
    Alberta
    Full Name:
    Robert Martineau
    Dude, you have some serious skillz, not to mention balls of steel. Its been great watching your work in progress.
     
  13. makethemsaywow

    makethemsaywow Karting

    Mar 24, 2015
    161
    SF, CA
    You work FAST.
     
  14. atl_boy

    atl_boy Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2014
    335
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Raj
    Liking the progress .. Keep up the work!
     
  15. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #90 rmarchjr, Sep 16, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Very happy with the progress today. Got the front fenders measured and aligned. 3mm gap on both sides with the hood in its original position. If I never see seam sealer again it will be too soon. Both fenders were pushed slightly out of alignment by the impact in the front which bent the trunk box. the impact thrust the aluminum sheets upwards and broke 1/2 the seam sealer bond on both left & right fender. All the bolts (5or6 dont remember) and holes were intact. i had to free the fenders from most of the glue & bolts & spot welds in order to cut out or straiten all the front sheet metal pieces. Once the mess was strait the fenders dropped into there correct respective positions. For now one tack weld per fender and bolts will hold it together. I still have work to do in that front area, its not acceptable yet but getting there. I couldn't resist sticking the headlights & new front central lining in for a quick picture.

    I do wish I could claim the TIG skills but here's my friend welding. Ferrari uses an excellent quality epoxy coating over the aluminum. It must come off before welding and needs to be replaced after.

    Really looking forward to the mechanical work, Radiators, condensor, fan are all next. And if Ferrari comes through with my drivers side replacement seat belt- been on order since july 14th?-I think I'll make it to the track next Wednesday for an open session. I'm planning a slow enduro run to put some miles on and see if any problems slipped by. Street tires and just fast enough to stay out of the way.
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  16. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #91 rmarchjr, Sep 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Due to time constraints I have to skip priming and painting the new radiator cage and trunk pieces. It will be a great project for the winter when I can't drive the car and I don't plan on driving in the rain or snow so corrosion shouldn't be an issue. Right now I need a ride, so will definitely take a short cut and use the car for a few late season track days. I will go back and disassembly it to really finish her right over the winter. I can't wait to drive this beast.

    Right side radiator, condenser, and air duct installed. Both side skirts are on for initial test fitting before paint(will be replaced with CF pieces) Both headlights installed and fitted perfectly. Flushed the brake system and replaced with RBF600. Dumped the cooling system again. Arranged to have the damaged windshield removed and replaced on Tuesday. For now I'm putting in a lexan piece because it will need to come out again before the full repaint.

    Decided to try "paint less dent repair" procedure which really worked great but took a very long time.

    Use a heat gun to bring metal up to 250 F, later I increased temp to 280-290 which seemed to work better. Make tools with flat sides to rub the underside of fender. Most effective seemed to be about the size of a quarter or a bit smaller. Heat and rub, and rub and rub. About 30-40 minutes of this fun and the dent just disappeared. Unbelievable to watch it happening. Aluminum is a fantastic material. Need more tools...

    If you made a boo boo with your ferrari and have dent but the paint is OK, find the best PDR guy in your area, it will be money well spent! I never did anything like this, watched a youtube video and tried it on the Scud Missile. This is something anyone with a good eye and some metal working experience can do very easily.
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  17. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2013
    3,935
    Potomac, Maryland
    Great work, it's going to be awesome
     
  18. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
    24,440
    Honolulu
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    You are the man! What are you doing specifically to heat the metal work area to the desired temp? How are you measuring the temp?
     
  19. Ferrari Nube

    Ferrari Nube Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    317
    British Columbia
    Wow. The process, knowledge and work being completed is incredible. I wish I had 10% of your skill set.

    Great thread!

    Cherrs
    FN
     
  20. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,740
    Lake Villa IL
    Nice to see you making fast progress!

    Aluminum tig is rather easy IMO. Based on your other work I'm sure you could do it with some practice. Most important thing for nice results on aluminum is being perfectly clean (even clean the filler rods)
     
  21. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    kev- i think its a 1600 watt heat gun, swirl it around the damaged area +2 inches, dont stop moving it and the paint stays perfect. The cheapo laser temp gun from lowes- its pretty close to the expensive fluke. +/- 5 deg, it doesnt read as well on some surfaces, but ok if your within 3'.

    Intmd8- at some point id like to, that welder my buddy uses is over 3k and im trying to prioritize both time and money. Also bent valves in my 360 Ch engine, variator failure. I've noticed the time spent preping the area really pays off, its nice having an expert since he can just look and know its not clean enough or needs a bigger bevel, makes it all go easier.
     
  22. Casino Square

    Casino Square Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 21, 2004
    1,728
    Hong Kong / USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    You and the fellow doing the Michelotto 308 rebuild are without doubt the two most talented people i've come across. What an epic project, real respect for your skills.
     
  23. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    #98 rmarchjr, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I lent out my scan tool until monday and don't have access to my manual.

    Can anyone explain what information this Italian pictorial nightmare is attempting to convey?
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  24. treue

    treue Formula Junior

    Jan 22, 2004
    290
    Oklahoma
    Full Name:
    Tom Treue
    r,

    That one would be: "Driving mode switch failure. Indicates a failure of one or more systems that select the driving mode. Contact your Authorized Ferrari Dealer."

    Bad Manettino or related circuitry or switchery?

    See: All Ferraris for emergency manual help in the future.

    Tom
    2007 F430 Coupé
     
  25. rmarchjr

    rmarchjr Formula Junior

    May 21, 2012
    586
    North east, USA
    Thank you Tom,

    I had all the computers disconnected for TIG welding. Hopefully no big deal, I'll check my connections and scan/clear it on Monday. Sounds like the ecu's are not communicating with each other.
     

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