Mike C - MODERATOR Just a note to let you know that I have clicked on the SPONSORS link at the bottom of the home page, filled out the form, and tried to submit it - but it will not submit. Link broken. Still waiting on response to my PM asking for sponsorship rates. I have more info on this kit to post, but I am trying to wait until I am a rightous Forum Sponsor to do so. ;-)
I understand the reasons for doing the run in 4th. However, I don't understand why you have to run the other gears up to top speed to get to 4th, and then start from 4K RPM. What are the issues/concerns with starting the 4th gear pull from a much lower speed/engine RPM, say 1500, or -2000 RPM?
Upwards of $6,500 for 94HP? It might for some, but doesn't balance for me. Granted that's for a 2V....I'll be curious what #s a QV gens. Any guesstimates what #s a Euro QV would get?
30% is safe, 40% is possible, 50% is pushing it a bit and where better timing & fuel control and an intercooler are the way to get back to safe. But even at 30%-40%, thats 75-100 hp. You will more than feel the difference, the car will be fast, toast a 348 fast. I can tell you adding that kind of power makes it a whole different car, in a good way....but is worth the money or not? Only you can decide.
None, it's done all the time. In fact you can let the drum roll with the engine idling and start the pull there if you want. I always mean to get a pull form around 1500 when I go to a dyno, but I often find I get busy doing this of that and end-up back home with a final run that starts at some higher number....I need to be more careful I find that just driving around, the engine is between 2000 and 4000 95% of the time, so I spend a lot of my tuning time making sure it runs and pulls well in that range., but the big hp numbers are between 6k-7k
Lou - what are the posted factory HP and torque number for your car, and what is the compression ratio? Give me that and I'll hazard an answer as to what the kit will do when installed. Carl
Hey, not fair. We want one of these kits too. Carl, think about it, dude. A 348 SC kit. I'm in. Vince 348 TS SS owner
Carl, My car is a Swiss spec, 8.8:1 compression ratio, 240 hp @ 7000 rpm, 190 ft lb +/- max torque @ 5500 as far as I can gather from research. Other euro specs are 9.2:1 comp ratio. Cams, flywheel weight and transmission gearing also differ on Swiss spec QVs. It's kind of odd, some Swiss noise regulation thing or something (na hah). But I like my close ratio gearbox a lot, heavy flywheel's gotta go when I do the clutch). I'll get a baseline dyno and get the real hp, torque, and F/A numbers to you asap. Willow Springs open track event March 3rd & 4th (might be BOOSTED !!) Sweet! -Luigi PS: Verell, did you get my PM about the QA1 shock kit ? Birdman- GOT SHOCKS ? If this is as good as your fuse blocks, I'm in.
Lou, based on my experience and the specs you gave me, I think your "after" dyno numbers will show between 350 and 375 HP and between 280 and 300 ft lbs of Torque. All numbers given at Crank, not rear wheel. Condition of the motor will have EVERYTHING to do with the results attained, and we will know more after Lou gets his 308 QV to the Dyno for the "before" run. It is not uncommon for a manufacturer to fudge their HP output a bit - so there is often some difference between published engine HP and real HP attained when measured. (Not to mention limes on the motor, etc). Lou - take it to a DynoJet dyno near you, and send me the bill.
Carl, Lou, I think you may want to work from some measured data as Ferrari's specs are, umm, shall we be kind & say, "optimistic": Both enjoythemusic & I have Euro QVs. They now dyno very close to each other, here's the average between the 2: RWHP: ~180 @ 6200 RPM TORQUE: ~ 160 @5800 RPM Lou, could it have been eMAIL as I don't have anything in my PMs. The message & reply may have gotten lost while fchat was being flaky. BTW, I expect to be able to offer the alternative to modifying the A-arms that Birdman & I are working on once we get the design solid & tested. Probaby in about a month.
"I think you may want to work from some measured data as Ferrari's specs are, umm, shall we be kind & say, "optimistic":" Yes - my point exactly. Once Lou gets his to the DynoJet, I'll be able to be much more precise.
Hey guys, Carl, I will be busy with out of town business until late next week, but hope to get my car on the dyno then. I have located several local dynojet facilities and will use one that provides the best service/data (ie: integrated A/F data). BTW, my engine has 30,000 well cared for miles, no limes at all -LOL(I assume you meant to type miles). Verell, My PM to you was probably lost in the Fchat crash. I am planning to do QA1's and higher rate springs and wanted one of your kits. Now I'll wait and see how your QA1 package shakes out. I'll stay tuned. Everyone, I have no illusions (or would it be de-lusions) about HP claims vs actual real world #s. I would not be suprised if my current RWH dynoed in around 160 or so from what I have seen historically on this and other forums. My 308 does run very strong though, so we will see. I will be very happy if I can get 80+ additional RWH from wherever I am now. There is more than raw HP increase to consider when boosting. In my experience with my other supercharged vehicles, I have been very pleased with the quik throttle response, power curve changes and overall "drivability" performance enhancements. -Luigi
Carl, This is the dyno facility I plan to use. http://www.powertraindynamics.com/dyno.html I am waiting to get schedule time confirmation for next friday 1-19. Any thoughts on how we should approach the air/fuel test issue (given their equipment and the fact that my car has aftermarket cats, just big Englehard High Flow Cats, no mufflers) -Lou
Carl I had asked you before whether the major service I was undertaking needed to account for the addition of your SC to my 328. You had indicated "no". However, while researching other options I came across an interesting note on the website of Norwood Performance re:the differences in the head gaskets of the 328 vs308. They state that in even modestly boosted turbo systems they installed in 328s they experienced gasket failures. They recommend using copper gaskets. Have you considered this issue?
Lou - the Dynojet 248e chassis dynometer is an excellent unit, and will give you accurate results. Because you do not have an active catalytic converter/EGR system installed, have them just "sniff test" the air/fuel ratio at the tailpipe. FreFriday - I understand the 328 has had headgasket trouble in turbo applications. I will not claim to be expert in all things Ferrari... so if you are "in there" anyway, by all means, install solid headgaskets as a preventative measure. However - understand that even a "mild" turbo will be pushing 11 to 14 psi, well above the numbers we will be recommending for your car, about 6 to 7 psi. Secondly, head gasket failure in a turbo is more often caused by excessive heat at the head causing warpage, than by pure gasket blow-out. A turbo is - by its nature - going to create a lot of exhaust backpressure. It MUST, or the impeller will not spin. The exhaust turbine completely occludes the exhaust from escaping unless it spins the wheel on the way out. That is the way it has to be. This beackpressure creates intense heat at the exhaust valve and exhaust valve seat. That is why factory-built turbo designs include extra measures to handle the extra heat - different heads with larger water jackets like the Porsche 944 Turbo vs the 944 NA; sodium-filled valves like the 911 Turbo vs the 911 NA. When you slap a turbo on a car that was not engineered for it - this heat can cause head warpage and gasket failure that is wrongfully attributed to gasket blow-out. Not a problem with our design. ;-)
I posted a video and audio file of this SC install for you. You can see the car drive and hear what our supercharger sounds like. It is the 5th one from the top on this page: http://www.928m.com/ourvideos.html Enjoy! Carl
I'm not positive about the exact issue with thw 328 gasket, but was told that the gasket will not tolerate even slight detonation. On my QV, I had a couple injectors fail years ago and the lean condition and probably detonation that occured as they failed caused the flame rings to self-destruct on those cylinders. The gaskets never leaked, but the flame ring was sure gone.
Carl, Oh really ? The fact that exhaust gasses are passing through massive catalytic converters (thats how we got the car to pass california EPA) but without an installed EGR will not affect the readings the "sniffer" is getting ? -Lou PS~ Nice Video!
FYI, the 308SCVideo.mpg link on that page wouldn't work for me by clicking on it via my MSIE browser. I had to use an FTP client to actually download it.
Right click and Save As should get the file saved to your local hard drive, then you can view the MPEG in Windows Media Player. Was able to do this in Firefox under Ubuntu Linux - assume it will work in XP/Vista as well. --Mike
Lou - yes, then tailpipe sampling will be just fine for the air/fuel reading of your motor on the dyno. Works well. I did not remember about the special catalytic converters you installed. Some air/fuel meters function on exhaust temp, while others function via infra-red light bent as it passes through hydrocarbons. The later type is effected by sampling after the cats, the former type is not. Let's call the dyno operator and ask him what he thinks. Glad you like the video. All - We recommend that you right click on the link to the video, and then select "save target as". This will download the video to your PC so you can watch it without internet speed issues. That works best.
The dyno man says no problem with the fuel air sniffer issue/ cats/ etc. They are very intrigued with this CIS bolt on SC kit and happy to be involved ( charging of course, but happy ). Baseline Dyno is set for 9am Friday 1/19. Carl, I'll send you scans of the results via e-mail and originals by mail if you would like. I'll also post results here (hope my RWHP is'nt like 96....). Cheers, -Luigi
