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Scottsdale Photo Radar

Discussion in 'Arizona & New Mexico' started by d-kauf, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. d-kauf

    d-kauf Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2006
    328
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    David
    It's been a few years since we've debated the topic of photo radar in Phoenix metro, but I wanted to resurrect the discussion thanks to a letter I got in the mail recently from City of Scottsdale.

    Cited for 51 in a 40, which was photographed from the fixed speed camera S/B on Scottsdale Rd and Shea. I'm one for owning up to my mistakes, but before I admit guilt, I did a little research on the Scottsdale city web page and the Arizona Revised Statutes. A couple questions that popped up that I was hoping others could chime in...

    1) City of Scottsdale has an FAQ section on their website that says "Why are drivers allowed an 11mph buffer?"

    If that were true, wouldn't citations kick in at 12mph over posted speed limit, since 11mph would technically fall within the "buffer"?

    2) According to ARS 28-1204, "At least two signs shall be placed in a location before a photo enforcement system. One sign shall be in a location that is approximately three hundred feet before the photo enforcement system. Placement of additional signs shall be more than three hundred feet before a photo enforcement system to provide reasonable notice to a person that a photo enforcement system is present and operational."

    I always notice the "photo radar warning" signs erected before the speed vans on the side of the road, but don't recall ever seeing any notices near the Scottsdale/Shea intersection.

    Again, just want to make sure I gather all the relevant facts before writing a check to the City.
     
  2. ferrariman1492

    ferrariman1492 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2012
    309
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I have been advised not to pay it unless they serve me....which they never have. But if they did, I would pay it.
     
  3. GNALUZU

    GNALUZU Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2004
    694
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Adam
    I have a few acquaintances that have received photo tickets in the past. They always put them in the circular file under their desk.
     
  4. TroyI

    TroyI Karting

    Mar 18, 2010
    80
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    Troy Isaacson
    I am an attorney, though not admitted in Arizona. That said, never ignore the tickets. While they may not seek you out, the next time you get pulled over for doing 2 miles over the speed limit, it is highly likely you could end up in cuffs and your car towed. The better approach? See if you can negotiate the ticket down with the local city or district attorney.
     
  5. ferrariman1492

    ferrariman1492 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2012
    309
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Not the case with photo radar tickets in AZ.
     
  6. GNALUZU

    GNALUZU Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2004
    694
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Adam
    In AZ the state has 90 days to "serve" you with the ticket. After that it is dismissed. It is public info and is listed on the state website if you know where to look.

    My wife got one several years ago and it shows as "dismissed" after the 90 days past.
     
  7. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    5,888
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Those tickets work great for playing basketball with. However, it all changes if they happen to actually show up and you take it. Short of that....... hoops!
     
  8. darthenzo

    darthenzo Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2007
    488
    Glendale, Arizona
    Full Name:
    James
    Just one more reason to dislike Scottsdale (or most of the east valley for that matter)
     
  9. F40

    F40 F1 Rookie

    Apr 16, 2003
    3,227
    Got one on the way back from Ingenere's once. I didn't pay it and was never served. Have been pulled over multiple times since with zero warrants/repercussions. Ignore it and don't answer the door for people you don't know, that includes not letting them see you checking who's at your door.
     
  10. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 29, 2010
    12,322
    Wyoming
    I knew I shouldn't have paid the one I got a few years back!

    I figured the 3 pics of me with the top down in the Maser looking pretty cool with my shades on were worth the $. :)
     
  11. F40

    F40 F1 Rookie

    Apr 16, 2003
    3,227
    My dad paid one he got in Mesa, and for some reason they sent his payment back!
     
  12. Desert Plains

    Desert Plains Rookie

    Jan 4, 2013
    5
    Arizona
    hold off on paying photo tickets, later they'll offer an amnesty (50cents on the dollar) or purge the records alltogether
     
  13. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,391
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    A
    Photo radar tickets sent through the mail are simply a polite request for a donation.
    In order to become liable, the operator of the vehicle has to be served by an officer of the court, such as in a live traffic stop by an officer or a visit from a court authorized service person.
    That photo ticket is mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle, based on license plate info, not the operator. AZ law also makes it quite clear that the owner has no legal responsibility to identify the operator.
    The private, for profit company that runs the camera's will not undertake the expense of court service unless they can make a positive ID based on matching the photo to drivers' license records. They incur an expense to serve you and it comes out of their share of the revenue.
    The percentage of photo radar tickets paid was around 30% last year.
    I would wait until you are served. If that does not happen within 90 days, it's over

    The best way to avoid the hassle altogether is to register your vehicles to an LLC or some other non human entity
     
  14. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,651
    any of the above also apply to calif?
     
  15. GNALUZU

    GNALUZU Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2004
    694
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Adam
    This is what we do. Our cars are all registered to the company. At least once a year we do get a letter from the DMV asking us to identify the primary drivers for each vehicle. Now, if I could only find where I put that letter so I can fill it in and return it.... ;)
     
  16. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,391
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    A
    The whole point of a moving violation citation is that it is a charge against the operator of the vehicle. The registered owner of the vehicle is not the intended target. Unless the State law deems the registered owner to be responsible for the actions of anyone operating the vehicle, a mailed citation to the owner should have no effect whatsoever. I don't know definitively how CA law treats this issue, but my guess is that the owner cannot be held directly responsible. In order for any criminal or misdemeanor traffic charge to be valid it has to served upon the person breaking the traffic law by an officer of the court, which is any uniformed police officer or a court appointed service processor.
    CA does have a law that requires traffic stops to be made by uniformed officers in clearly marked vehicles.
     
  17. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2008
    30,915
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Haha! I just got one too from Maryland - $40!!

    A little ridiculous, but I read somewhere that the registered owner is on the hook for paying if they can't ID the driver...oh well, I'll just pay it I guess.
     
  18. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,070
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    This is correct but I'd like to expand on it from my own research and talking with a lawyer

    1) What you received in the mail was sent to you by first class mail. Being properly served requires at least being signed for by you and sent back by them using return receipt postage. i.e. In the court's eyes you have not been properly served.

    2) The notice may have a phone number and special access code to check the status. Never call this number and use the code as that confirms that you received the mail and have been served

    3) The notice may have a website and special access code to check the status. Never go to that website and use the code as that confirms that you received the mail and have been served

    4) The price listed is double what the standard violation fee would be because the photo radar company gets that half of the revenue, which is the whole purpose of this ticketing scheme. The ticketing company has a stake in this and it is motivated by profit off you.

    5) I use a PO Box as my mailing address, this makes it very difficult to serve me

    Hope this helps



     
  19. d-kauf

    d-kauf Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2006
    328
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    David
    Process server just paid me a visit while I was working in the garage.

    What's my better option - $250 fine or traffic school?
     
  20. ferrariman1492

    ferrariman1492 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jul 2, 2012
    309
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Ugh. Traffic school.
     
  21. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 15, 2006
    26,273
    Phoenix
    Full Name:
    AG
    Traffic school is probably $200 (that's what I paid for when I went) and no points. I'd go that route.

    But remember, you can't do traffic school for another 2 years.
     
  22. AZ-Giallo

    AZ-Giallo Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 17, 2012
    539
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Full Name:
    David
    In Texas you can plead Nolo Contendere (No Contest) and get 6 months probation. You still pay the fine, but after the 6 month probation, the ticket is dismissed and isn't on your record. If you get another ticket within 6 months you are charged with both.
    Is that an option in AZ?
     
  23. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 15, 2006
    26,273
    Phoenix
    Full Name:
    AG
    I have never heard of that and I'm a Texan!

    Depending on how much the price of defensive driving is, I would rather go that route instead of paying the fine and getting probation (whatever that involves, perhaps not getting another ticket in the 6 month period).
     
  24. chris9999

    chris9999 Rookie

    Apr 7, 2015
    1
    I had to acknowledge the ticket to get it out of the owner's name. I understand that the ticket has to be served in person, not by email or phone acknowledgement. I live a few hours outside the valley, so I doubt I will be served once the ticket is transferred to my name. Does anyone have any experience with this situation?
     
  25. stardoc

    stardoc Formula Junior

    May 5, 2005
    636
    The big oven
    Full Name:
    K RA
    Why did you have to acknowledge anything? The ticket goes to your friend who has no obligation to name the said driver photographed during the alleged infraction.
     

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