Sorry if this topic has been beaten to death, I haven't read through all 100 pages of this thread. Is there a consensus on why the scud seems to be so stagnant compared to seemingly every other car on earth? I've been eyeing them for a decade and it feels like I've been reading about how the market is just about to launch to the moon any day now. Is it just too raw for the average Ferrari owner?
Okay, my ideas on this topic and why this discussion is dragging on…. Please note, just my ideas and experiences, not necessarily the truth… Let me start by saying that I’m a Scud owner, and a very happy one. Why? In short, the looks, the feel through the steering wheel, the engine and especially the gearbox. Having driven al kinds of cars, manual, pdk and semi automatics, this box adds to the thrill. I expected this box to be a compromise, but now for me it is a key feature. For me the only car that came close to the Scud overall experience was my Porsche 996 km2 Manthey. And that was obviously a manual, hard core, highly tuned and well developed and balanced car. So why isn’t it more expensive? - Every car is limited regarding its production numbers, but the 360 CS and the 16M have lower numbers than the Scud. - People seem to dismiss the F1 box, not knowing (from own experience) that the Scud box feels totally different and very suited to the Scud. - The CS was based on the Challenge (so I was told) and the Scud was based on the regular F430, so ‘less pedigree’ apparantly - The rawness might be not for everyone. Even though with the AC, bumpy ride mode, excellent brakes and reliability I think Ferrari made a sensible compromise to build a more hard core car than the standard F430 without ruining everyday practicality. Even after driving the car more or less flat out for 6 hours in Germany, it still felt relaxing to drive. - Finally perhaps the cost of maintenance and parts, especially when things to wrong. But all Ferrari’s have this ‘feature’ probably. To be honest, I’m struggling to find other reasons than the above mentioned. But perhaps this question can be answered better by non Scud owners…..
Fortunately, it is not the price that determines the qualities of a used car. In this sense I always have to laugh a little when I visit this thread here. Does its price go up? Does it go down? Does it remain stable? Since I will never sell my Scuderia, I honestly don't give a ****. Anyone who has ever owned a Scuderia or driven it over long distances will often decide like Chris Harris because of its qualities, and not because of its potential to increase in value... (watch at 7.00minutes)
When I was looking in late 2019, 90% of Scuderias were below $200k ask.....probably 50% were $185k asks or less. I know because those and my Ford GT were the same price so I just bought the car I liked more. Ed Bolian bought his for $140k during that time. So they have gone up with the inflation tide....
You don't remember when i started this thread that i said the Scud. will be going up in value it has now come true just face it ,i guess you been living under a rock all this time , what are the good one are now 250k to 275k and they'll keep going up Supply Demand buddy .
There were alot of beat up Scud.at 200k 2008 with no stripes , look at a nice 2009 with stripes low milage there 250k and up now , wait till spring i see 300k and up if you can find a nice low milage Scud.
This is the only reason. 360CS also has a (much worse) F1 box, neither car is "based" on the Challenge car - they have some standard parts replaced with racier/more aggressive bits, interior stripped, etc. Ferrari made a ton of Scuds. 2500-3000 estimated 360CS numbers were way lower (<1300), and 16M even lower (499). All about #s
Where did you get the 2500-3000 estimated? I have also seen 1500 estimated. And 2000 estimated. All estimates! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Having seen most of the cars in the U.S market over 7-8 years, I don’t feel there’s that many. If I had to place a bet, it’s 1500-2000 units worldwide. 25% in U.S? 400-500 cars. Not that much.
Here is my two cents on the "value" issue (and that is exactly what my opinion is worth, but thought I'd share). I think the car is simply too over the top/raw for the typical Ferrari owner. Other than f-chatters, most of the owners I know of with these cars only have one Ferrari (among other sports cars from different makes) and actively sought out the Scud for its unique experience. This is just anecdotal, but if you have $200k+ to spend on a sports car and want a Ferrari, it is going to take a somewhat unique buyer to choose a Scud. Either that person is filling a hole in a car "collection," or they truly value the raw, zero amenity, can't really take your wife to dinner, race-car experience a Scud offers. I have an acquaintance that always wanted one and when he heard I had acquired one he couldn't wait to come drive it. He left a little more quiet and subdued than I had expected. I think he was surprised at how unlike a "modern" car it was. He had a 458 in his garage within a month!
Funny, I don’t think it is THAT raw. Sure, it is pure, direct and it can be sort of a hooligan to drive. But honestly, I was surprised how comfortable it can be as well. And yes, it is the only Ferrari I have…. But a second one would be a Scuderia as well!
Estimates from FerrariChat also. I don't think anyone has any real idea, but I do feel certain there are more Scuds than 360CS. Perhaps, definitely more Scuds than 360CS though. 360CS is also very raw but is worth more. Scud is just the unloved middle child in the V8 specials. 360CS was the first factory special (vs. 355 Challenge which was dealer installed), 458 Speciale was the last N/A Ferrari V8, Scuderia is just stuck in the middle, despite being developed by Schumi. Not sure why the values aren't sky high to be honest.
You bring up a good point about CS vs Scud production numbers. I agree CS is less. I think roughly 300 in U.S market? I think it’s an even toss up between these two cars if a buyer were looking. Pros and cons are almost dead even. One could argue demand for the two are the same, but since CS production is slightly less, market value is reflecting that. CS doesn’t seem to be commanding that much more than a Scud. I’d say about $50k delta on avg. So if 300 CS cars are in U.S and command roughly a $50k premium over a similarly spec’d Scud (ex. Rosso Corsa vs Rosso Corsa), it makes sense to me there’s only 400-500 Scuds in U.S.
i have both the CS and the SCUD... i def. feel the CS is more raw.. Love the brutal shifts of the SCUD, but if i had to chose one------- CS. It just feels special when ya drive it, Yes its SLOWER, Yes it doesnt shift as fast... But something about it is just PERFECT!
I like the looks of the CS alot. And of course the sound is basically second to none. I also love the exclusivity and the "cult following." My problem, when I was shopping and tested a cs (before I bought my gated Gallardo), was that the car just felt...uh...slow(ish) for the money spent. Lots of drama and sound and fun, of course, but just not that quick. I have never, even once, felt like my scuderia was "slow." Sure, its no torque monster, but 0-60 in the low 3 second range with a screaming n/a v8 is fast by any (modern) metric, imho. When you consider the additional grunt with the scud, the improved reliability (several generation newer f1 system and no timing belts), and the fact that aftermarket exhaust options can make the car sound just as special (albeit different) as a stock CS, it was no contest in my mind between a scud and a cs. To be honest, I'd sooner buy a gated 360, add some challenge wheels and a CS rear grill, add a CS-like exhaust, chip, tcu and other cs mods and ride hieght and bank the extra 100k I'd have left over! But then again I'm cheap and almost always opt for the "value proposition" cars that I can drive and pile on the miles without fear of losing my shirt.
I guess your never drove a Scud. , you think the 360 is a better car go into a Scud. let it shift at 8k and then let me know if the 360 is a better car you,ll **** your pants ???
The Scud being potentially unloved, reminds me of a once unloved Porsche, the 964. Stuck in the middle between the much loved 3.2 and last air cooled 911, the 993. People who knew, said it was the “unloved middle child…. “ Old style body with albeit new technology but with a leaking engine and compromised ergonomics and it wasn’t that much more powerful than the old 3.2. I bought a rust and accident free example for 15.000 euros some time ago. How things have changed, and from my own experience, and owned several 3.2’s, 964’s and a 993, I can definitely confirm that the unloved Porsche became my favorite 911. With the 996 GT3 mk1 a close second. I guess time will tell and both the CS and Scud wil have its own following, no need to bash each car or each other on this. Regarding the numbers, I think there are more scuds than CS’s, but I guess no one knows for sure and it seems we’re quoting each other on this. Most important is there are sufficient affordable examples for all afficionados. Happy new year, stay safe and healthy.
In 09 the dealers were telling me they had 3x scud allocation than they had cs and that was without the 16m.
Great..You're back. Seems you still have yet to learn how to be nice to people. You are still condescending and rude. Try to be nice. You have been banned from this thread several times. Wrong again. By the way you have changed your total Scuderia production here in this thread so even you don't agree with yourself. Bought Challenge Stradale. Sold Challenge Stradale. Bought Scuderia. Sold Scuderia. Both great cars but I replaced them with a 599 GTO. Sorry.
