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430 Scud to Speciale?

Discussion in '360/430' started by MaranelloDave, May 15, 2019.

  1. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    I've now had my scud for about 6-7 years. I always said I'd never sell it, unless I would replace it with another Ferrari special series V8. I poked around the internet to see where prices are for the Speciale and noticed that several low-mileage examples are now available in the mid-300s, which I believe is less than they were in previous years. I'm now kicking around the idea of trading in the scud, adding some cash, and getting a Speciale.

    Has anyone upgraded from a scud to a Speciale? Anyone who has owned or owns both? I'm wondering whether or not it would be worth it to make the change and whether or not I would have any regrets in giving up the scud (and I can't have both before someone recommends that). I probably would miss the brutal shifts of the single-clutch transmission of the scud but, other than that, it seems like everything else would be improved upon with the Speciale. The Speciale is slightly heavier, but I think the additional weight is effectively compensated for, so it seems that that's not much of an issue (although I do like being able to say the scud is sub-3000 lbs).

    Please share your opinions. Thanks!
     
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  3. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    I owned an 08 scud. Owned it for 2 years. Traded it to a 15 speciale. After 3 months sold the Spec.

    Now, im back to an 09 Scud.

    The Spec is better on all aspect but it was made IMO, did not feel so special. Any new ferrari is better than the model it replaces but the SCUD is the only other car ill keep, together with my e39 M5.

    If i where to choose one, ill take a scud anytime.
     
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  4. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    Wow. So what in particular makes you feel this way? What about the scud is more special than the Speciale? Why doesn't the Speciale feel special? I mean, "special" is in it's name. :)

    Oh, I used to have an E39 M5 too. Sold that one as well. :/
     
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  5. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    Also, of one wants to remove or minimize the kick on a SCUD on shifting, try to remove your foot off the gas pedal. It is smooth. Especially on an ordinary drive.

    Im sure you know it but its a manual car. So drive it like a manual.

    Now in the track where you are full trottle, you hardly will feel it.

    But a Spec, is an auto. You wont have the kick and you will miss it.
     
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  6. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    IMO, what was right on the SCUD compared to a Speciale,

    1. Exhaust is better, you dont need any after marker exhaust. Actually, I feel an ordinary F430 is better sounding than a Speciale.


    2. The interior in a SCUD does not look dated compared to a Speciale. Its looks more like a track car. The Speciale has more CF than a 458 but its like a 458.

    3. The interior noise in a SCUD is louder, which makes it feel more special. The Speciale has more sound deadening.

    4. Do you want a big screen in the car, I dont. Why do you need a NAV?
     
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  8. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    Thats why the Spec has more comfort features that it feels more like a GT car. Of course, its faster but I am more emotionally connected to a scud.
     
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  9. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    What's your thoughts on the seating position between the two?
     
  10. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Or get a CS for the best of the three.
     
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  11. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    As for the exhaust, I changed mine on the scud because I don't like valved systems that automatically open/close on their own. Seems contrived. I got an x-pipe on the scud and probably would do the same on a speciale. The x-pipe screams in the best way.
     
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  13. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    Its thesame. Now that ive gotten used to an RS, I realized how good the seats and position on the Ferraris.

    When they made a scud, they really did not think about to make you comfortable. They just wanted it to be fast. But there will be others much faster.
    So all this special cars needs to feel special to be SPECIAL.

    A scud needs not be named a SPECIALE to be special. Schumacher made sure it is special. It has his name on the libe.
     
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  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I had an e39 540. Best luxury sedan I've ever owned. Sporty feel.
     
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  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I guess if one is looking to "upgrade" within the special class of Ferrari V8's, the Speciale would be the most logical option. It's just a matter of what one considers an "upgrade" not taking price/value into consideration.

    I've had a few friends and dealers ask, "why don't you upgrade to a 458?" My response, "Not looking to downgrade to a 458." If I wanted a 458, I would've bought one instead. They were practically the same price at the time.
     
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  16. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    I wouldn't sell the scud for a base model Ferrari. As far as an "upgrade," the scud is as fast as a 458 in straight line until you're over 120 or so. So, I don't consider a 458 to be an upgrade. Also, the 458 will continue to depreciate.

    As I said, it would need to be a special series Ferrari. I prefer the Speciale over the Pista because the former is naturally aspirated. The new turboed cars are certainly fast, but they just aren't as engaging to me.
     
  17. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

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    Drive a Speciale and decide for yourself. I hate to compare these cars to other makes, but Other than my Scud I also own a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z06. The C6 has more power but it is also more comfortable and has less feel. I believe the Scud/Speciale is about the same. I prefer the Scud , then the C5, then the C6.

    Good luck in your choice.
     
  18. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    You could more or less have a Scuderia and a high mile CS for around the same money as a $350k Sp.....how cool would that combo be?
     
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  19. bart12

    bart12 Formula 3
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    This combo is much more desirable to me than just getting a 458 Spec alone.
     
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  20. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    When I drove a Speciale with my Scud back to back on the public road the Speciale seemed boring to me, not a real event. Certainly a great car and on the racetrack it might be a bit faster. But what does that mean "faster"? Compared to today's turbo monsters also the Speciale is a "slow" car. In a direct comparison the Speciale is too "Italia" to me, with this car Ferrari wanted to reach a too wide audience. The engine with its 0.2 liters more displacement feels in the power delivery in about the same. The additional 500rpms you realize not really, too crazy screams the Scuderia at high engine speeds, they work well in the brochure. Bottom line the Scuderia feels more extreme, uncompromising, louder and crazier. This car is more "racing car for the road".

    But if you just want something new, what can happen once in a while, do it, go for the Speciale.
     
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  21. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    No way to keep the Scuderia and also pick up a Speciale?

    I think the experience behind the wheel of each one is different enough that you will be left longing for something if you gave up one for the other. Just sitting in a Speciale, I think you'll quickly miss the stripped-out, spartan, exposed welds, racecar feel that makes the Scuderia such a unique event.

    Once you get going in the Speciale though, you'll be blown away by how fast it is and your senses will be titillated by the sound, the sharp steering rack, the speed but maybe not so much by the upshifts...it's an engineering marvel but I dare say way too smooth? The downshift blips are pretty awesome though. It's a very refined, gt-esque rocket when you compare it to a more raw, racecar-esque Scuderia.

    And imho, if you're looking for laptimes on your track day, either are far from the best or most effective option in the sea of options we have today. I know, it's ironic to say for a track-focused lightweight Ferrari variant but it's the reality, may be coincidence, but it directly correlates to how Ferrari has been sucking in F1 for the last decade. In the performance, laptime, numbers game Ferrari hasn't been at or near the top for a LONGASS time...only numbers game Ferrari is winning is maybe the appreciation game, hence why Ferraris remain the most mileage-sensitive car manufacturer in the resale market.

    With that said, it also seems like the Speciale market has gotten a slight uptick from a year ago when good, low mileage examples were seeing only $330-350k...now they're a touch higher. Sustainable? Who knows...I think with the huge influx of options of "limited editions" not only from Ferrari, I don't think prices will hold...they just made too many of them...
     
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  22. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #19 freshmeat, May 18, 2019
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    I also find it particularly amusing that this one guy (who shall remain unnamed) who was highly critical of the Scud for as long as I can remember recently picked one up for himself. He still has his Speciale, and if a very vocal critic can do a complete 180 there is undoubtedly something unique to the Scud worth hanging onto.

    You could also keep a Scud and get a base 458 as an alternative combo? On the track I'd say 80% of the performance gain between Spec and base 458 come from the tires, at least true when it comes to Sonoma Raceway which isn't a power circuit.
     
  23. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    Good info, guys. The “add a CS instead” option sounds interesting, but I need fewer cars, not more. :)

    Not sure what to do just yet. Will need to think about it more. I’m in no hurry so time is on my side.
     
  24. Nel1

    Nel1 Karting

    Jul 11, 2012
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    I owned a 2009 Scud for 6 years and 2 years ago traded it for a 2015 Speciale...

    Which one is better? It all depends on what you are looking for and what you value most.

    For me, the Speciale is the better car overall. I believe it remains highly emotional (and an event to drive) but is more comfortable than the Scud. It is not only more capable but also the ac works better, the radio works better, the electronics work better (connectivity, blue tooth, etc...). The build quality is also superior and is more reliable. My Scud spent quite a bit of time in the shop addressing cosmetic issues (yellowing carbon fiber, spider webs in the headlamps, wavy dashboard, glue failing in interior panels) and some mechanical needs (steering rack wear, oil leak, front suspension noises). The Speciale has needed zero attention other than replacing the battery and rotating the front brake paths to address CCB squeak. Long story short, in my experience, there is a big difference in build quality between the two.

    Do I miss my Scud?... yes I do. Particularly the F1 single clutch transmission; I liked that better than the Speciale, no question. However, I do not regret my decision a bit as the Speciale is an fabulous car that does everything so well. Fantastic at the track, great for cruising, good on traffic, sophisticated enough for a nice night out... I also believe that it is a more “collectible” car with a much bigger and stronger fan base that will help maintain its value better.

    However, all this is meaningless if you value most a more raw, simple, aggressive experience. In that case, the Scud would be the better choice.




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  25. F430giallomodena

    F430giallomodena Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2012
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    Had a red Scuderia, traded it for a 458, went back to a black Scuderia last year. I am not going to speak about what I like more in the Scud, but facts: Scuderia is harder to drive fast compared to Speciale, understeers much more, has less responsive front end, slower steering and harder to handle on oversteer. Completely different traction control and electronic setup compared to the 458. (Scuderia cuts the engine, 458 brakes the rear wheels). Scud has definitely more noise in the cabin compared to Speciale and if you like to drive fast I think the feeling that the SF2 gearbox is giving you is overall better. The gear changes in the 458 at full throttle always felt a bit "unnatural" for me, meanwhile it's better in traffic.
    Since I went back from 458 to Scuderia I would suggest you to drive the 458 deeply before buying it.
    Regards
     
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  26. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    When you say “458” are you referring to a “458” or a “458 Speciale”?
     
  27. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

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    Thanks. This is the impression I get. Some positives, some negatives, but overall not a bad decision.

    I know some have said the spec is "boring," but I believe this is more of a relative thing to the scud than an absolute. Hard to imagine driving the spec fast is boring after seeing multiple video reviews and seeing the broad smiles on the reviewer's faces. Clearly, owning both is preferable, but that's just not a possibility at the moment. I could wait until it is an option, but I fear the spec may be much more expensive by that point. Last NA mid-engined V8, etc. Anyway, it's a first-world problem so I can't complain too much.
     
  28. frank320

    frank320 Karting

    Feb 27, 2005
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    I currently have a Stradale, and have driven all 3(Stradale, Scuderia, Speciale), and here are my thoughts:

    Stradale - It is loud and provides as raw a driving experience as they come from the factory, including an over-steering factory setup. The exhaust system is as loud as they can ever come out of a factory and its 5-valve per cylinder roar at 8500 rpm is almost as close as one can get to an old school F1 engine roar. It is dangerous to drive the Stradale at speed with its over-steering behavior and you had better be sure you know what you are doing. The electronic driver aids are useless in the Stradale. There probably won't ever be another car from Ferrari that comes out of the factory with an over-steering setup and as loud an exhaust as the Stradale in the future.

    430 Scuderia - One of the best single clutch gearbox out there and the engine is magnificent. There's slight under-steer to the car that can be corrected with a heavier right foot, which is perfect. Throw in an X-pipe exhaust upgrade and you have a great F1 sounding exhaust with performance to beat. Running thru the F1 paddle-shift with your right foot planted in a Scuderia is one of the best driving experience ever. Schumacher infused performance - enough said.

    458 Speciale - Last of the naturally aspirated V8 engine, and it is spectacular. All the electronic driving aids work, unlike the Stradale's and Scuderia. Better aerodynamics and the dual clutch is spectacular. A bit too much electronics in the car(console, speedometer) for me, but the performance is undeniably great. One of the best naturally aspirated V8 engines from the Ferrari factory, and it looks like they ain't making them no more. Unless Ferrari moves away from the turbo engines, the 458 Speciale will be very sought after for a long time.

    Performance-wise, there's no question that each successive generation is much faster than the previous, and that each successive generation has more F1 infused technology than the last. It all boils down to the experience you are looking for and some luck finding the correctly optioned and properly maintained car for you.
     

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