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430 Scud to Speciale?

Discussion in '360/430' started by MaranelloDave, May 15, 2019.

  1. efg2014

    efg2014 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    492
    Northern California
    And then there are guys like me where the base F430 is sufficient.
     
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  3. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Aug 3, 2007
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    Nostradamus
    Scud and Speciale have the same downforce coefficient. Aerodynamically, they are practically the same. Most of the downforce is created with the underbody, not all the fancy stuff you see above.

    Weight advantage goes to Scud.

    Engine advantage goes to Speciale. Perhaps the greatest NA V8 ever made and doesn’t look like anything will top it anytime soon.
     
  4. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    That's one thing that attracts me to the Spec. While not actually true, I feel like wringing out every last horsepower from an NA engine is true engineering while using turbos is "cheating." It's amazing how much power Ferrari was able to make without relying on forced induction.
     
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  5. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Because of Direct Injection technology, Ferrari was able to get 14.7:1 compression ratio while other companies are still below mid 13’s. Combine that with capability to hit 9k RPM, this is what engine engineering is all about.
     
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  6. frank320

    frank320 Karting

    Feb 27, 2005
    116
    Watchung NJ, USA
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    Frank
    Its Friday and long Memorial Day weekend is coming up, so let's have some fun. It occurred to me that comparing the 3 (Stradale, Scuderia, Speciale) is like choosing the best pilot in the movie Top Gun - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gun

    The Stradale is like Maverick(Tom Cruise) - It is wild, unpredictable and liable to kill you. It screams and curses on the way to its rev limit, causing all kinds of drama along the way. If it doesn't kill you on the day that you drove it, it will put a smile on your face cause you got away with one.

    The 430 Scuderia is like Viper(Tom Skerritt) - Single clutch might be a little old school compared to Speciale's dual clutch, but put it in the right hands and the Scuderia will perform and kick ass. It outperforms the Stradale with pose and a lot less drama. It is the instructor/moderator between the Stradale and Speciale, and you had better show it respect. Absolute best single clutch transmission, last of its generation.

    The 458 Speciale is like IceMan(Val Kilmer) - It is ice cold and ruthlessly efficient in terms of performance, always ahead of the rest. You can always depend on it to deliver and win. The quiet, no-fuss 9000rpm redline engine performance of the Speciale delivers when you want it to, and you always want it on your side. There's never a surprise on the performance of the Speciale as it delivers time and time again on every aspect.

    Truth? You need all 3 to make a good movie. If you had to choose one? It is going to be tough, best of luck...
     
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  8. Vatkens

    Vatkens Rookie

    Jun 3, 2016
    4
    Fabulously put!
     
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  9. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    I’ve got the CS and keep looking at Scuds and Speciales to add, but I’m having trouble deciding between Scud and Speciale. Or Scud and 458 due to the cost of the Speciale.
    The CS is a riot.
     
  10. PVEferrari

    PVEferrari Formula Junior

    An excellent analogy and write-up, I wanna watch Top Gun again... ;)
     
  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,244
    How much higher do you think prices could go? Speculatively speaking, the current prices seem nutty to me, especially the SpecA prices...
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    SpecA prices are insane. I find the Speciale to be well priced in Europe.

    But even at the cheap end, neither model is selling any time soon. i.e. asking price is too high
     
  14. dwe8922

    dwe8922 Formula Junior

    Feb 27, 2004
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    I really like the speciale, but I don't think I could trade my scud to get it. The trick would be to add speciale, own both for a year, and sell the one (or none) you could live without. I can't help but think the speciales will have some depreiation curve to them at some point. Stradales were high when current, then they dipped, and then went back up. We're seeing some lower priced scuds now. I would imagine the same will happen to speciale's too....
     
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  15. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    The thing with 458s in general is that they are the last of the NA V-8s.
    A good majority of Ferrari owners buy because of an image not because of performance.
    A 458 exhaust will always be better sounding than a turbo.
    Hence the margin for lack of depreciation.
    Everyone knows this.

    However a Scud checks many more boxes.

    Speed becomes just a talking point.

    Its all about having fun and feeling special.
    No ?
     
  16. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    I (and no one) knows for certain. Prices have come down some recently, presumably because of the release of the Pista. Some less desirable ones (higher mileage, "interesting" color combos, etc.) are available in the low 300s. This trend could continue, especially if we begin to see the strong economy weaken. Then again, current prices could be nearing a bottom. You just never know. Incidentally, I'm not looking for an Aperta. I have one drop-top car now and almost never put the top down despite having great weather year round.
     
  17. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I've said a few years ago the vast variations in "interesting" color combos ordered for the Speciale could very well drive prices down. Out of 10 ordered, I only like 2. The color combinations are out there in most cases imo. In the same token, if you actually find a color combo you really like and the owner isn't budging on price, you will probably have to pay up. CNC had a black one with one large red and white stripe along with red accented seats I absolutely loved. Wasn't advertised, but they wanted about $415K at the time. Too hefty for me, but I haven't seen that spec anywhere else.

    Just imagine if they let you spec out F40's in any color you want w/ any stripe style you want. How would that affect today's market prices. Just like the Scud market, the most desirable color combos will fetch a premium while the less desired ones fetch lower prices. Luckily with the Scud, I think they made less undesirable ones. Scud specs are alot more streamlined than Speciale specs.

    Will the vast number of "interesting" / possibly undesirable Speciale specs drive the market prices down? Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    ive had a CS since 09 and its a very low mile example. i have 2 430 spiders f1 and ive had 2 458s - ive mulled over scud vs speciale for a while and lately im leaning towards a speciale as the perfect compliment to what i have now - but i wld look for a 10k+ mile car.
     
  19. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    Interesting. Most seek out the low-mileage examples, but the price differential between low mileage (e.g., 10k miles) and really low mileage (e.g., 2k mikes) cars is substantial. While I try not to care about mileage, I must confess that it does matter to me. Hard to ignore it in the States if you consider resale before buying, as I do. Those of you in Europe are lucky as cars there seem to be less impacted by mileage.
     
  20. F430giallomodena

    F430giallomodena Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2012
    910
    Lugano, Switzerland
    How can you guys worry so much about mileage and not driving your cars?

    To me it looks like marry the nicest girl out there and not f**k her and leave it pristine for the next guy....are you all insane? :D
     
  21. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,244
    Conversely Dave, if you think about it, if more of us stateside shifted our own mindset and broke away from that mold of thought then it would work out for us too...the only reason it is what it is today is because there are more "collectors" (this incl guys who drive regularly but have massive car collections) than "drivers".
     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    i have a 3500 mile car - its a piece of a collection. it serves its purpose. my point was if you wanna drive a car ur better off buying one with miles on it and you will do better from entry and exit perspectives.
     
  23. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    I hear this analogy a lot but it's not valid. The next guy doesn't pay you for the girl based on how much the girl has been used. ;)
     
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  24. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3

    Apr 27, 2010
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    I'd love that, but it's difficult being the first! Also seems to me that this mindset is so ingrained that it's not likely to change.
     
  25. frafoss

    frafoss Rookie

    Jun 8, 2015
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    Norway
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    Frank Foss
    I need to support this. These cars are made for driving and they are much more sturdy than you think. I've just arrived home after my yearly trip driving from Norway to Nürburgring, where I have pushed the car as much as I can at twotrack dayss without any technical issue at all. This is the 4th year in a row. I had the pleasureto meet the marketing director for Lamborghini, and got to test the new Huracan Evo for some laps. Great engine but cramped driving position. After this test, I know that the Scud is a keeper. Much more nimbler and communicative. The Huracan was as driving Playstation in comparison.

    I also enjoy to see my car in the garage clean and tidy, but life is too short not to enjoy these cars.


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  26. unogib

    unogib Formula Junior
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    Jun 26, 2006
    385
    USA
    I have an ‘09 Scud now and absolutely will never sell it. Also own an FF and 488 Spider with a Pista Spider incoming. I’ve been looking at adding a Speciale but the current prices on CS really have me thinking of adding one instead. Worries I would never drive it compared to the Scud though....for those that have CS and Scud - thoughts? Worth having both?
     
  27. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
    3,653
    I’d like to know the answer to this as well.
    CS & Scud ? Redundant ?
     
  28. Horsin'around

    Horsin'around Karting

    Jun 14, 2017
    202
    I went from scud to speciale 2 years ago.

    The main letdown is the sound.

    The speciale truly sounds awful compared to the scud.

    I would suggest you test drive a speciale before pulling the trigger.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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