Scud vs. 458: Prefer the Scud but didn't expect to. Advice?

It is even more fun if you switch all the nannies off (CST-OFF).

The car tolerates the hard setting of the suspension on track days quite well. I run stiff mode at one of the most bumpy racetracks in U.S., Sebring.

Keep in mind that in U.S. trim, the Scuderia is almost 400 lbs lighter than the F458 Italia, this weight make a massive difference in mechanical grip during braking and turning.

The F458 has a quicker transmission, but it is not the shift time that helps the F458 a lot, but the very close ratio transmission and the 9,000 rpm redline that keeps the F458 engine much better on the powerband.

My Scuderia has been to drag strips, autocrosses and racetracks. It has proven more reliable than any Porsche I have owned to date (includes GT3 and GT3 RS).

In my opinion, the car is comfortable for street use, the lack of insulation put more engine and mechanical sounds in the cabin and I like those sounds. It has a big trunk, I can put my tool bag, cooler, floor jack, jack stands, helmet, drive to the track and come back at the end of the day.

It is one of the most track day ready cars available. You can driver straight from the showroom to the racetrack and it will perform at the top. It gets better with a track alignment, race brake fluid and race brake pads for track use. It gets even better with wider wheels, wider track tires and a stiffer suspension (sway bars and springs).

I think at $200k it's the Ferrari bargain. 503+ real HP (dyno proven), under 3,000 lbs with no fuel but all other fluids topped, amazing brakes, amazing transmission and carbon fiber everywhere.

 

Well said

 

100% agree. Went for used 16M rather than new 458/MP4 12C. CS is in the same vein of street racer that really makes for special driving moments.
458 is more everyday (I mean that in a very positive 560bhp supercar way).

 

I don't know how long you were out in the car but the ceramics need to heat up before the 'monstrous' biting happens. My F430 has the steel so initially they bite normally, but when I drove my friends Lambo SL with ceramics from a cold start the brakes felt like they almost weren't there.
Hope this helps.

 

You know I have a similar problem... I'm thinking of marrying one of two different women...

The first one I am madly in love with, we make wild passionate love for hours at a time, she makes a very nice income and I really enjoy my time with her. I find her much hotter than the second woman.

The other woman doesn't work and expects me to pay her bills. She's ok in the boudoir but just lacks a little something. But all by friends say she is the hotter one.

Which one should I marry?

 

Easy, the scud.

 

I"ve tested both the Scud and the 458, I was able to get one of a kind color combo and still got an awsome ultra low miles Scud!!!....above all screaming deal

Scud is the real ferrari experiance!

 

Having lived with an F40 for 5 or so years, I found that car the best driver's Ferrari built. When I drove an F50 (which was the follow up), I found it better, but it was a synthetic copy of the real thing... the F40. Unfortunately, I let the F40 slip away.

The consideration for me was the CS or the Scud, but I found the comparison of the F40/F50 for me, the same. While the F40 was pure, the F50 was an attempt at the same thing, but is a bit synthetic. The CS was spot on, and the Scud (though better) felt more like a copy that blunts the experience.

Based on values, it also appears that the Scud is falling prey to overproduction. While the CS is much more limited, and the closest experience to an F40. The CS came home for me.

 

Right on......CS is my next project!!!!

 

Most of the difference between the Challenge Stradale and Scuderia is just physical appearance and perception.

With just a ride height adjustment, alignment and springs swap, you can make the Scuderia handle like a Stradale, or Stradale handle like the Scuderia. The Scuderia has more understeer built into it (due to alignment specs), the Stradale is more twitchy at the limits and more alive (again due to alignment specs).

The suspension pick-up points are identical in these two cars, but the factory alignment sets their behavior. Neither alignment is ideal, because both factory settings promote a numb steering wheel (a common complain when comparing a 360/430 to a Boxster/Cayman/GT3). With proper alignment, both cars will behave quite similar at every turn, they weigh around the same ( +/-2,975 lbs depending on options with no fuel in U.S. versions).

Personally, I like the look of the Stradale better, but looks is second to me. The F430 has a massive aerodynamic improvement over the 360, the F458 Italia got just a little better than the F430 and Scuderia in regards to downforce.

In regards to sound quality, I think the Stradale has the best stock sound, followed by the F458 Italia, then the F430, and finally the Scuderia. I don't like the Scuderia sound, it sounds like two Honda Civic engines with open pipes and no mufflers. However, with my x-pipe exhaust, Capristo headers and stock cats, I got the best sound quality ever in any of my cars, and sounds a lot better than the cars mentioned here.

 

For a car that I have to look at (not win races), I want a car that makes me want to take that look over my shoulder, and the CS does that for me.

As to the steering, everyone feels that the CS's steering feel is spot on, and I have to agree.

 

i'd take a scud over a 458.

 

Not really...safety regulations caused a serious rethink when the 430 came out. The overhang in the front is much greater than on a CS (idem Scuderia). Then there is the weight factor where a Scuderia is a good 175 to 200 kgs heavier than a CS.

The CS is a car that is based on a Challenge car (suspension bushings, etc) and very different from a stock 360, where a Scuderia is a sportified 430.

The CS was produced in limited numbers for a single purpose: the ability to homologate the successor to the 360 NGT, the 360 GTC. Even today, those racing cars remain a true icon and are the first modern era Ferrari GTs to win a World Championship. A 360 GTC (with large restrictors) was recently driven by a professional rallyman (very well known for his World Titles) back to back with a 430 GT2.... he was as quick in the 360 as he was in the 430 much to everyone's surprise.

The CS has a real front end. The 430 does not...even a Challenge car suffers from the front end. You have to go to a GT3 or GT2 to really be able to use the car.

Ferrari put a gearbox with a bang in the Scuderia so that the driver would "feel" fast.....

Noise is subjective, but nothing comes close to the scream of a CS....

Final point, the CS was a limited edition car, the Scuderia was not....

 

Really? I must not be understanding your point. I have a VW GTI with a DSG and can go 6th to 3rd with three quick clicks in the blink of an eye.

 

Peter
I see from your username that you obviously love the CS, it is a great car. You are however not being quite honest about the Scud.
It is well documented, a number of times on Fchat, that you could spec a Scud to be lighter than a CS with careful option choices. Weight difference as standard is 70kg not 175-200kg as you say.
Just a sportified 430 - now we're talking fantasy. Ferrari went to town on Scud just as they did with CS. Engine has a different internal designation, fastest ever F1 speed, extensive use of titanium suspension parts etc etc!
CS was produced in limited numbers for no other reason than it was the run out model, Ferrari didn't know how many they would sell before the line changed to the new 430 model. It wasn't a limited edition it was just produced in small numbers limited by demand and the new model arriving. Scud is the same but was in production for longer before the new car arrived hence higher production numbers. Both were unlimited except for demand and time in production.
CS has proper front end, i'm not qualified to comment other than to say again as mentioned many times suspension mounting points are identical, titanium parts the same, even lighter wheels etc etc. Again many posts saying the scud can be set up exactly as the CS if you wish.
Gearbox just 'feels' fast! That's because it bloody well is - CS is 2.5 times longer on it's gear changes - pedestrian by comparison. Scud was the first car to feature 'super fast 2' F1 box, same speed of change in the latest 599GTO at 60ms compared to CS 150ms.
CS noise - yes it is superb!
The lower volume of production of CS will always count as a plus point, it is a truly exciting car to drive and I love them - but, none of that detracts from what a great car the Scud is, built to the same street racer philosophy and a big performance step forward from the CS.
Thread is choice between Scud and 458 - I vote for Scud.

 

I'm no technician but I thought with a DSG box the second clutch always engaged only one gear up or down, hence changing up or down becomes a sequential process, every gear is engaged before moving on. With F1 box which is an automated manual you can miss gears both up and down the box just as you do in a full manual car.

 

I am not a technical person but have tracked(and owned) a CS and a Scud - loved them both - but the Scud blows the doors off the CS on the track

 

This topic has been discussed. There is a thread in 458 forum that is relatively current that talks about it. Do a search to ensure you get the most info that is available on here...

I own a CS and have driven a Scud and 458 back-to-back on a track (but have not driven either on the street).

I came away from my track time LOVING the Scud and ADMIRING the 458.

To me, the Scud is a better-performing CS...it has the CS rawness, but a better shifter, more power and better nannies (I needed them a bit) and a bit better interior. Its visceral and fun!

The 458 is an awesome combination of comfort and performance. It reminds me of a Porsche in some ways (that many here will not agree with). It has drive-all-day comfort and, I'm pretty sure, is faster around a track than a Scud (and certainly a CS) due to its higher power, near-perfect shifting and careful/complex nannies to keep traction - esspecially in the hands of a novice driver like me.

In some ways the 458 was too "finished" for me. That is purely a personal preference of course. I came from Porsche's to a nicely appointed Maserati Gransport (somewhat like you) to my first Ferrari. For me, I wanted a screamer, spartan, pure sports car. The CS is that...and it is that nearly perfectly. So, it was an easy choice ONCE I figured out what I wanted (meaning what "role" would the new car play in my stable - GT, daily driver, track car, weekend back road car, etc) and given that I decided to keep the Maserati to drive when the CS was just too loud/rough/spartan. If you are keeping the Maser, I would strongly recommend you get a CS or Scud as a compliment. You can always get a 458 later. Heck, my "plan" may turn out to be to trade the CS and Maser on a 458 Spider down the road...

Good luck with your decision.

 

Get your facts straight. Put a Scuderia and a Stradale on the scales and stop reading press material referencing dry weights. If you do a search on these forums, you might be able to find facts.

I have a complete parts catalog good until 2008 (fortunately it includes the Scuderia). The 360 Modena and 360 Challenge Stradale share more parts than the F430 and the Scuderia.

In U.S. stock Scuderia vs. stock Stradale are just 30 lbs apart. However, clicking options in the Scuderia bring the Scuderia to a lighter weight, over 40 lbs ligther than the Stradale (2009 carbon package, forged wheels, carbon engine lid and carbon side skirts). In ROW markets, the Stradale was available with manual windows, and so was the Scuderia.

Set a Scuderia alignment to the same Stradale alignment, put the skinny 7.5 wheels on 225 Corsa tires and you will get the same steering feeling, because the parts are identical.

The suspension bushings in the Stradale are rubber bushings, Stradales don't have delrin bushings like the Challenge car. Remove a wheel from your car and touch a bushing, delrin doesn't flex as much as rubber. Both Stradale and Scuderia use rubber bushings on all control arms, the Challenge cars (F430 and 360) use Delrin.

CS was not a limited edition. I like the car, but it wouldn't my weapon of choice if I want to go fast and keep up with Vipers, Vettes and GT2/GT3/GT3RS.

 

Now I'm confused...

I guess I've never just held the paddles back on my Maser or my CS...cause I thought it only went "one gear change per one pull of the paddle". Thus I always pull it once and let go to change a gear and then do it again if wanted to downshift twice.

If I hold the paddle back it will do "what" exactly?

OTOH, I could have sworn the 458 was the first F-car to allow the driver to simply pull the paddle back and have it downshift through multiple gears "automatically" while you hold the paddle back...

 

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. You need to compare the 458 to the F430. When the new "M" version of the 458 comes out, then do another test.

The 458 is the best daily driver sportscar Ferrari has ever made. That's it's purpose. The old days of spending gobs of money on a car just to let it sit around for only those "nice weekends" is over. This car costs 300K. There's no reason why it can't be driven like a Porsche 911 if you want to.

It's easy to drive in traffic, doesn't have a clutch to worry about wearing out, gets reasonable fuel mileage, and is low maintenance (and now has free maintenance). But, when you want it, it has amazing performance like a sports car should.

If you're comparing the 458 to the F430, there is no question which is better. If you compare it to something more hardcore, of course it's going to have a different feeling. That's not what it was designed for.

 

Personally, I think you are crazy if you consider buying a SCUD, or a CS for that matter, over a 458 but the real thing that get's me on this thread is the people who have driven these cars on the track, yet never owned one. Who in the heck allows people to track their CS or Scud, let alone a 458? I guess Ferrari doesn't do a come drive our car's on the track around the Seattle area for the people that "think" they might be interested in buying one...