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Scuderia Ferrari 2022

Discussion in 'F1' started by jpalmito, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    So the big news is that there's no changes
     
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  3. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Rumor coming from joe Saward.
    Usually more reliable..
     
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  4. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #178 DF1, Jan 10, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
    Again if someone is dominant early they might runaway - countering them will be difficult as the chances of that are smaller now with budget limit????.

    Others are saying its not true like Liberty/Domenicali

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-budget-cap-will-mean-fewer-in-season-updates-in-f1-2022/7167390/

    Ferrari: Budget cap will mean fewer in-season updates in F1 2022
    Ferrari director Laurent Mekies is expecting Formula 1 teams to push out fewer in-season car developments in 2022 due to budget cap constraints.
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    Filip Cleeren
    Co-author: Luke Smith
    Jan 10, 2022, 5:28 AM
    Last season most F1 teams halted any development push on their 2021 cars early in a bid to get ahead of the game for this year's all-new technical regulations.

    While 2021 was an outlier in that regard, Mekies believes the sport's budget cap will still limit in-season developments compared to pre-2020 levels, as the financial restrictions put in place to make F1 more sustainable will reduce the number of updates teams can afford to pump out.

    "Not compared to this year, because this year obviously was near zero, or at least for us was very little, but if you go back to 2019, 2018, we think you will see less," Mekies said.

    "In 2018, 2019, in the big teams, you had something every race on the car or every other race.

    "It sounds difficult from our perspective to have a high number of updates with the constraints that we have."

    The cost cap, which has been lowered to a base figure of $140m this year - excluding add-ons - means F1's biggest teams have had to be more disciplined about where and when to spend the budget they earmarked for developments.

    That luxury problem particularly affects big spenders Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari, teams which have already had to radically downsize their teams to fit within the budget cap.

    "You need to keep a budget to develop during the year, because you will learn more and more, and therefore you will need ways to adjust. This has been the biggest challenge," explained Mekies, whose Ferrari team finished third in the 2021 constructors' championship.

    "Once you have defined that envelope, that's what you have for aero development, that's what you have for mechanical development, then it goes to each department and aero will say: 'OK with that, I will be able to do two developments or three developments', and then you reschedule all your plans to feed that.

    "That's effectively what we do now. How much of a challenge it is depends on your level of competitiveness to the others."

    But Mekies warns that if 2022's pre-season testing unearths several issues on the new cars that need to be addressed quickly, fixing those problems could mean teams may have to dip into their development pot earlier than planned and sacrifice some in-season updates.

    "If you have a big issue at the beginning of the year and nothing is correlating and so on, you may invest some of your package two or package three money," Mekies added. "You need to fix it anyway now, so you take your parts, you put them into the bin, and that's the way you will deal with it."
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    F1 is hoping for a start to the year like 2013. 7 races 7 winners.

    Unlikely.

    Especially if 1 team gets it right (which is more a rule during massive changes in regulations (1989, 2009, 2014).

    Though the regulations are very tight now, that basically means if one team gets something not easily adapted (see something like the F duct, which was implemented into the chassis), good luck to the rest.

    Mercedes with their rocketship engine is one to watch out for, yes the engine only lasts 5 or so races but it has such a power advantage, it easily overcomes the deficit of the penalty (5 places if only the ICE needs replacing).
     
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  6. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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  8. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting and sad that they want to hire him rather than someone who is younger and in the sport now. I dont consider that 'out of the box' thinking or sign of success to come. Thats the best person around?? Old and from the FIA?? Maybe it will work lol.
     
  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Again don't underestimate Todt.
    We will see..
     
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  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Well, agree in that Todt is too old to play a significant role in the team, but he knows the FIA and is good at kicking balls. He´d around there just to play politics.

    It could help, but it´s not going to be a game changer, that´s for sure.
     
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  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Lobbying is always a game changer with this sport.
     
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  13. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Nothing will make me happier than to see Ferrari show up in preseason testing and have a car that leaves the other teams spinning in circles and mumbling "who are those guys?" And I'd like to see McLaren fighting with MB and Red Bull for second. What the sport needs is a Ferrari engine out in front with the lead going back and forth between Sainz and Leclerc. Could it happen? Why not? And I don't care how they do it. I will continue to dream of it until I'm shown otherwise.
     
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  14. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie
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    Last night me and a friend did a £50 bet on which SF driver would end up ahead, based on a tossed coin.
    I ended up with Chuck and he got Carlos. Even money as it could go either way.
    I am ok with that bet.
    Later on, and a good few beers later, I bet him £50 SF over Merc for the WCC at 2/1 in favour of the reigning champions.
    Maybe not so smart.
    But if Charles wins the WDC and SF the WCC I will win £150.

    Who knows, the beer fuelled evening was all on him as I bet Max over Lewis for 2021.

    However, I don’t even like Max, this time I let my heart rule my head.
    Should I start saving up ;)?
     
  15. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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  16. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    Typical Italian media, what worries me is the pull rod suspension, invented by Gordon Murray (presumably) there is a reason why this system has never caught on in F1 for all manner of reasons. The 2012 SF car was awful and Alonso complained bitterly about it, are we about to see history repeated?
     
  17. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    I thinks its more aero related decision for GE cars, pull rod suspension was near impossible to package into the trendy high nose concept cars. How they overcome this dilemma will be interesting, the problem comes with car set up and handling. Ferrari have effectively limited its scope in car set up for multiple tracks imho.
     
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  18. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    Why do you believe a pull rod limits set up options?
     
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  19. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    In the F2012 it limited set up because the extremely high nose mandated a quite bizarre geometry for a pull rod.

    But the new cars are a different thing, so I would 't be surprised to see more pull rods.
     
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  20. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Not traditional italian media this time.
    A technical site led by two usually reliable person.
    Lot of engineers said the pull rod system is equally performant compared to the push rod.
    It is just a matter of geometry.
    Alonso lost the title by only three points against Vettel and the mighty Red Bull with this front suspension configuration..
    I would have loved to see this the last three years with our cars..
     
  21. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    It's not limited, but harder to set up I believe. Last time they ditched it Ferrari said minimal aero benefit and higher CoG...CoG is still there but with higher minimum weights again in a smaller car, perhaps Ferrari think the aero benefits are worth it.
     
  22. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Speaking of pull rods what's Lance up to?
     
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  23. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    +1

    Recall that pull rod was used at the rear of every F1 (pretty sure, unless forgetting an outier) for the past years specifically for aero and low CG benefits.

    Could be the set up is more difficult because of the need to access the spring/dampers deeper down in the tub but the benefits of a pull rod remain: a rod in tension doesn’t need to be beefed up in section to avoid buckling and so this is definitely an aero and weight benefit.

    Also, the CG will always be lower because the spring/damper will, logically, be lower than on a push rod arrangement. The reason they probably claimed no CG benefit in the previous Ferrari iterations was because the pull rod was practically horizontal so this not only raised the height of the spring/damper but, also, the mechanical advantage was so reduced as to make the loads through the system very high and so all the components needed to be beefed up. I remember commenting on this back then.

    Having said all that there is one thing the teams will be considering if going away from push rod and that’s to do with the fact that in recent years—starting with Ferrari, I believe—they’ve been using some pretty extreme pushrod-on-upright pushrod mounting locations to affect the ride height at the front with steering input—effectively lowering the nose (with steering input) to increase front downforce especially at lower speed, tight corners.

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    I suppose the same can be done with a similar pull rod attachment design or maybe with the front wing being raised this year (I think) the benefits of dropping the nose are reduced so the need for this trick geometry is obviated.
     
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  24. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    regarding the CoG, I think the CoG was higher because the amount of stenghtening needed...
     
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  25. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

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    So.... because he is old he cannot / might not bring change/benefit to the team?..... Interesting........
     
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  26. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    The key to success in any organisation is to bring new blood, not look for "has-been" who left the activity years ago.
     
  27. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    Yeah, old ***s aren´t worth anything, you old fart. :)

    The issue for me here is not age, but that he´s not been at the front line for a long time. Working at FIA and at a F1 team are different things.
     
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