Scuderia Ferrari 2025 | Page 14 | FerrariChat

Scuderia Ferrari 2025

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Dec 19, 2024.

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  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Warning - financial nerd analysis (likely flawed):

    Hard to say exactly based on their financials. They lump merchandise together with f1 winnings and sponsorship ("Sponsorship, commercial and brand"). I don't see an itemization for each. Maybe I could find it with more digging. They had 670m euros in revenue last year for this item. It is up 32% in the first quarter of 2025 vs first quarter of 2024, but again they don't break down what is merchandise specifically. Hamilton could also be attracting additional sponsors which would fall into this item as well. If they maintain that 32% growth for the entire year (big assumption), that would be an additional 214m. That being said, revenue in this area grew 14% from 22 to 23, and 10.6% from 21 to 22, so they have some organic growth as well - around 40%. So if we assume they would have hit say 19.6% growth (40% increase from 14%) without Hamilton, that would mean he would potentially account for 12.4% of the growth in revenue or roughly 83.08m (assuming it lasts all year). For their part, they attribute the 32.1% growth to "to new sponsorships and lifestyle activities, as well as higher commercial revenues driven by a better Formula 1 ranking in 2024 compared to 2023." Of course, if they finish mid pack, that will affect revenue. Just as a data point, the entire line item is only 10% of company revenue, while cars and parts are 85% (~5.7b euros FY24). Perhaps it can be argued that his presence also helps sell street cars; probably not untrue.

    Would be somewhat poetic (tragic?) to see them make more money from racing while becoming a mid-pack team.
     
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  2. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Bottom line results positive - shareholders happy no matter where in the pack they are.
     
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  3. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I'm a shareholder, and not happy!

    50% Italian and a Ferrari fan first though. ;)
     
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  4. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    At some point a revival of the spirit will ensue lol :)
     
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  5. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I hope you are right, but I've been holding my breath for a while now.
     
  6. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula 3
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    Mar 11, 2007
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    Bella Italia
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    Dom T.
    I am a shareholder, and an Fcar owner, and no, I am not happy with mid-pack results.
     
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  7. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Joe R Gonzales
    Post Monaco2025

    [VanjaH@AeroTechVH]

    Ferrari SF-25 Deep Dive Floor Analysis

    Thanks to Hamilton, we got a chance to see the latest floor geometry of Ferrari. They've been doing their own thing with the floor since 2022 and while most of the teams copied Red Bull since (including McLaren) Ferrari kept their concept and evolved it.

    The concept core is bringing the tunnel roof as low as possible to generate raw downforce in ground effect. In 2022 this resulted in noticeable bouncing on early F1-75 - but the car was often so high and so soft it barely made any issue to the drivers.

    With updates in suspension and floor design, Ferrari got rid of bouncing completely during 2023 and it only became a problem with notorious Barcelona 2024 floor spec. There, Ferrari wanted to add raw floor downforce with additional vertical kicks on rear boat section and their suspension at the time just couldn't cope with that properly. They raised the car and later in Hungary replaced the rear vertical kick with lateral kick that we can see on photo in the quoted post.

    They later made a step forward with Monza 2024 package when they got rid of both boat section and diffuser keel vertical kicks - the concept which live on SF25. This mechanism deprives them of raw downforce at low ride heights, but they make it up with raw tunnel downforce instead.

    In my view, Ferrari are letting the flow go sideways out the floor more and more as speed goes up and ride height goes down to prevent raw bouncing through aero design. This is probably a common mechanism on all cars, aided significantly by floor edge wings. The difference with Ferrari is their low throat which will also generate a lot of suction at low ride heights, and this can cause bouncing more easily if the floor edge is not designed properly.

    Another key difference with Ferrari is their high diffuser kick, much higher than McLaren and Red Bull. This makes that area less sensitive to bouncing at high speed, while also giving good overall downforce at the front part of the floor. Thus, Ferrari can probably exploit softer rear end for improved low-speed traction performance.

    There are some more aero mechanisms in the rear corner, shown on first image. The particular way the floor edge vortices are formed on Ferrari's edge wing is slightly different compared to rest of Top 4, since Ferrari has introduced another rear corner chamber with their Vegas 2024 "experimental" floor. This update of rear corner provided them with better performance in high-speed sections and Leclerc felt it was a particularly good solution in high-speed corners in Qatar.

    The problem with SF25 at the moment is clear on these photos too - the rear end is somewhat too soft due to internal suspension mechanics not being able to provide adequate load support and ride-height control, while also providing spring and damping rates to keep the tyres in the right operating window. Ferrari is working on rear-end mechanic update and aim to introduce it in the next few races. If completely successful, it could allow them to set the car low again and unlock 2-3 tenths of extra pace from the car that we've seen in Australia Friday and China Sprint, which Ferrari needs in Qualyfying the most.

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  8. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    SpanishGP 2025

    https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-analisi-tecnica/gp-spagna-flessibilita-ali-come-cambiano-test-tutti-dettagli

    TD018 update Week

    How the front wing flex tests change?

    llustrations speak for themselves The biggest change is flap test with 60N of force perpendicular to flap, allowed deflection is reduced from 5mm to 3mm and we've seen with new Mercedes wing how much this influences the resulting reduction in deflection at high-speed.

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  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I believe RBR and Ferrari have the two most rigid front wings out of the front runners. Mclaren flexes significantly, Mercedes too. Not sure about rest of the field.

    Obviously this only affects front wing; Mclaren rear wing flexes a lot too but probably this works in conjunction with front wing, as in with setup etc.

    Spain will likely set the tone for rest of the season.
     
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  10. USMCS6

    USMCS6 F1 Rookie
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    I really hope this helps Ferrari, but it seem that these TD's always catch them out for some reason.
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Joe Saward opinion of Vasseur and the inevitable questions of his future after Barcelona.
    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2025/06/07/green-notebook-from-le-cheval-mort/#respond

    --It is probably inevitable that Vasseur’s future is beginning to be questioned. He has been there for a couple of seasons and things have not gone particularly well. The first proper season under his control (2024) saw the team second in the Constructors’ Championship, just 14 points behind McLaren. The second (2025) sees Ferrari with half as many points as McLaren after the first nine races with the likelihood of Maranello winning the championship being somewhere between very slim and impossible. There would need to be a cataclysmic change in the current levels of competitiveness for that to happen.

    The team is still popular and the road cars still sell better than ever, but Ferrari seems to be unable to fix the F1 problem. I suspect that Elkann will remain patient until we see what the 2026 cars can do, after which the Italian media will get out the really sharp knives, machetes and chainsaws and go after Fred. The problem with changing people all the time (as Alpine boss Luca de Meo is finding out) is that after a while people conclude that the problem is not the folk being hired and fired, but rather the person making the decisions. To give Elkann credit, he has been in charge of Ferrari for seven years and is still trying to fix things, but one day he may decide to focus on other things and hand over control of the racing team to Ferrari CEO Benedetto Vigna, who gives the impression that he would like the job.--
     
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  12. 355TDI

    355TDI Karting

    Feb 1, 2019
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    London
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    Immat Wings
    Very well put… which underscores my own conviction which the common denominator in all of Scuderia’s struggles is the board room. They have had great drivers, engineers and TP’s with bottomless budgets for 20 years.

    They must separate the board from the racing team, they need an intermediary sort of Jean Todt was during the Schumacher era. Ross Brawn and Rory Byrn were left alone to run the team and develop the car. Keep the suits at arms length, look at what AF Corse are doing in Hypercar… no politics, no marketing gimmicks just engineering and racing. They have unlocked their car and look unstoppable.
     
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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    #338 DeSoto, Jun 9, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2025
    I really dislike these comparisons with the sports cars guys. At WEC they have very restrictive rules, the cars are frozen, and the testing is not limited. Any dude can buy an Oreca chassis and the standard Bosch hybrid stuff and he only needs to build an engine, that will be BOPed anyway. Things in F1 are very different, and A LOT harder. McLaren needed almost 20 years, the all winning Mercedes fell 4 years ago and still can´t stand up. If F1 worked the same way as WEC, McLaren would already had got a castrating BOP and the rest would be beating them.
     
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  14. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Just give Liberty and MBS time to make it more and more a 'spec' series. There are not many options left.
     
  15. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The restrictive rules you are presenting are for LMDh, not LMH where constructors have more technical freedom.
     
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  16. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  17. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    Still there is a mandatory downforce, restricted power, limited energy per lap. And still if someone manages to win, they're BOPed again each three races.
     
  18. absostone

    absostone F1 World Champ
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    leclerc 3seater
     
  19. Stablef430

    Stablef430 Karting
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    It will be interesting to see if it’s a fair fight..
     
  20. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

  21. kes7u

    kes7u Formula 3

    Oct 18, 2017
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    So Leclerc got a podium in a car with "massively" hindered performance?? That sucks. He probably should have won, then!
     
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  22. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Define all that. Whats interesting is the lack of specifics on all this for both drivers in Spain. Ferrari............no information released about it lol. Mercedes will usually tell you more.
     
  23. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Maybe Haas should buy Ferrari and merge the two teams, putting Ocon next to Hamilton.
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    After every race weekend Lewis supposedly found something that hindered his performance. The same **** regurgitated since 2022.


    Yet it never gets fixed. 2 teams.

    The problem is...


    Fill in the blanks.
     
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  25. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Zero proof of anything posted here. Yet Vasseur says both affected. Maybe one day we might know. As I stated its not rocket science to know and continue to know Charles if faster. Its fun to see folks so AMAZED by that here LOL. OMG IM SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!
     

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