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430 Scuderia "Race" Paint Issues, Paint Protection Film (PPF)/Clear Bra, Ceramic Coating.. Let's talk.

Discussion in '360/430' started by ShineKen, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    #1 ShineKen, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    The 430 Scuderia was painted with less material than a standard F430 from the factory. This was all done for a sake of saving a whopping 5 lbs for the entire car. Knowing what we know now, it is probably safe to say this was a huge mistake.

    I have observed over the years that paint on the 430 Scuderia is sensitive and flakes off from rock chips and other misc mishaps rather easily. This is probably due to the paint not having enough primer, not having proper prep work, or enough paint from the factory.

    Ok.. so clear bra it. What's the big deal?

    The problem is clear bra didn't get really good until the last 5 years or so. Meaning, they've gotten clearer, have better UV protection, have better healing properties, less orange peel, and higher gloss.

    If your Scuderia was clear bra'd between 2008 and 2014, it probably wasn't a good one by today's standards. My car was clear bra'd by one of the previous owners. Front bumper, sideskirts, and rear bumper was done. The front bumper still has rock chips chipping through the clear bra and chipping the paint. Either the clear bra is too thin or the Scuderia paint just sucks or a combination of both. My sideskirts and rear bumper seem fine, thank god.

    Typically, if a car had some rock chips, you can just spot paint and blend. Can't do that with a clear bra. In my case, a clear bra has to be removed, which opens up another can of worms on the Scuderia. The chances of paint coming off along with the clear bra is high and I will probably have to repaint the entire bumper.

    My 2006 White Exige came with clear bra from the factory, which yellow'd horribly. I was able to pull 90% of it out using a heat gun and just being careful. Not sure how the Scuderia will react to this technique. God forbid you pull off a bad clear bra off your striped hood and the stripe lifts!

    My buddy who owns a large bodyshop operation and does quite a bit of exotic cars and also provides ceramic coating made a suggestion for future clear bra installation based on his observations. He recommended to go with a medium grade (not too slippery) ceramic coat lightly before installing a clear bra. This will allow a clear bra to be installed without being too stuck on the paint. I thought it was a good idea and will be considering it once I figure what I am going to do with my front bumper.

    I also recommend custom clear bra installations where you have as many edges wrapped around the bumper fender, hood for a cleaner look. The problem with "kit" clear bra installs is the edge of the clear bra is seen. Not a big deal.. until it gets dirty and almost impossible to clean. This is more of an issue with light colored cars where you can clearly see dirt build up around the edges. Some edges can lift over time as well.

    Having just seen 5 used Scuderias currently on the market, I think this is an issue worth bringing up and discussing. It's important potential buyers understand this issue is real and to be a bit more realistic about conditions of used Scuds. Most of the time, it either has a bad clear bra, rock chips, or the bumper has been repainted. Bad clear bras seem to show up fine on darker colors.

    Let's talk...
     
  2. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
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    Why not just repaint? If it's a good bare metal job then the paint can be applied in a similar thickness to the original, should that be important to you.

    Paint and the rest of the car will age with time and use so a clear bra just seems to me like needless hassle.
     
  3. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Repaint is probably what I and most will have to do regarding the front bumper and maybe sideskirts. There's also the issue of possible paint mismatch. Future buyers can also see it as devaluing the car although you are improving it somewhat.


    If you have a striped car and you start getting rock chips on your hood, I can assure it is not going to be easy to repaint the stripes. It will cost a ton of $$ to do it. Clear bra'ing is the only option to protect it.
     
  4. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3
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    That's a good point regarding the stripes - I hadn't considered that. I'm currently having a hood painted with the OEM stripe masking kit/process and it does add more hours to the labour total. It's not a huge amount of time but certainly extra.

    On my car it's mainly the fibreglass parts that have suffered (bumpers and skirts)
     
  5. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

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    Re did full clear bra on my scud not too long ago. Previous clear bra installed in 2009 case off easy. We used a steamer to assist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. MaranelloDave

    MaranelloDave Formula 3
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    I installed a clear bra on the front 1/3 of my car about 6 years ago and have been thinking I should probably replace it soon. I have been concerned about paint lift-off. Glad to hear at least one owner report that this didn’t happen.

    Anyone else remove a clear bra from a scud? How did it go? Really don’t want to have to repaint the hood and stripes.
     
  7. 338Lapua

    338Lapua Formula Junior

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    I didn't have a Scud but I had a 2008 F430. When I had the clear bra removed, put on by the previous owner, it lifted a portion of the clear on the fender. BTW - steam was used to remove the old PPF and it was 4 years old. After talking with a number of people (detailers, paint shops) , it seems as though the 430 was prone to this. Many times it is the lack of paint prep. for example, when my car was in getting repainted, we realized that you could "scrape" the paint off from the area underneath the cosmetic shields in the trunk area. Likewise, another 430 came into my local dealer in which the clear lifted after attempt to remove the PPF with heat. IMHO, PPF on a 430 is a risk.

    With that being said, I do not see why people frown on repainting these cars given an issue such as this. After the front of my car was repainted, it was better than new. Understandably, as owners we shouldn't expect to repaint cars because of substandard jobs, but if the process is fully documented and done by a reputable shop, I see no need to knock down a car's value because of this.
     
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  8. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Shop info?
     
  9. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Any particular reason why you feel your clear bra needs replacing?
     
  10. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    #10 ShineKen, Apr 25, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
    This is half the reason I started this thread. Potential buyers do not know about the specific paint issues on the F430/Scud because it is not heavily discussed. I didn't know the F430 had similar issues. By making the issue more public, perhaps new buyers can adjust their expectations for used F430/Scuds. Similar to the issues of hazing/spider cracking of Scud carbon headlights, once that issue was public and suggestions were made to correct it, it helped potential buyers realize it was a common enough issue that they shouldn't pass up on every Scud with them.
     
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  11. SignatureJames

    SignatureJames Karting
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    but in the end, everyone wants a mint 08/09 Scuderia priced 200K for the lowest autotrader example when shopping anyways no? HAHA
     
  12. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    I just purchased a Scuderia and it had the entire front end done in a clear protection by a previous owner.. It was not an acceptable job for me and my detail shop took it off we used a steamer and it came off with no real problems a small bit of paint came off on the bottom of the front bumper which worked out ok we then removed the bumper and had them shoot the bottom cub scrapes up to the first line then we re cleared the entire bumper then did a FULL paint correction
    and I only installed a protection film on the front bumper.... while we were at it we steam cleaned the wheel wells and underside the car ...
     
  13. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    thats another thing headlights for a scud are expensive....$$$$ but they can be fixed ..
     
  14. MaranelloDave

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    My understanding has been that if a bra is left in place too long it will adhere to the paint. Just want to avoid this. If that's not the case, however, I'd leave it in place as it still looks fine.
     
  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Interesting. Didn't know this. This definitely further complicates things if true.
     
  16. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    A bit too early to install a clear bra after a fresh paint/clear coat job?
     
  17. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    we did not do it the same day it has been several week process just telling the what my choices and results were .. removing the film is an art and it can be done but it is a slow and tedious job ... an inch at a time ..with lots of steam I held the steam gun and pointed it at the exact adhesion point on the back side as he pulled it very slow ..with a steady even pull
     
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  18. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Some say wait a month or two for the clear to completely cure in sunlight before any PPF. I honestly, don't know the correct answer.
     
  19. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I had the bumper on my scuderia refinished, as the previous owner didn't like PPF and simply repainted the bumper every year or so. It had a lot of paint chips, so I had it completely stripped and sure enough, it had been painted at least three times, just as the previous owner described. My shop cleaned it all up and did a proper refinish job and then baked it under some heat lamps for a few days (unsure of the exact amount of time), then had the PPF applied by a local custom installer. While being serviced a few months later, the film was torn and needed to be completely redone. The same installer redid it, and I was worried, but it was uneventful. Came off clean, and new PPF installed.
     
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  20. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    #20 plastique999, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
    I’m in the same boat....I do trust my installer and hope he can lift the old one off verrryyy carefully

    My installer recently removed and replaced old yellow PPF on my 2011 DBS and he did a fantastic job with no paint damage.

    Sent from my 16M
     
  21. Russell996

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    Never heard this about thinner paint on the Scud? Perhaps a reason to look at the extra campionario colours since these were hand painted.
    Had the original clear bra removed from mine after 10 years - zero issues. Bra covered bumper, bonnet wings, Carbon sills, vulnerable areas behind wheels. Car is now entirely covered.
     
  22. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Of note, Ferrari is lazy with some of their paintwork. My 16M is Bianco Avus and the undersurface of the decklid is painted black. Well there was a small area of the black flaking off and under that area it was white. They were too lazy to primer it and take off the factory white, just painted right over the white.


    Sent from my 16M
     
  23. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    The Scuderia has the same issue, engine lid, door jams and trunk. Ferrari should have at least sanded, they left it glossy underneath, so the black will not adhere and can flake off.
     
  24. SCIronMike

    SCIronMike Rookie

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    I just sent both my Audi R8 and Scud to the most reputable wrap guy in Orange County. Both have aging front end PPF and I asked to have it removed and then both cars to be completely wrapped. On the R8 it all came out with no problems. He warned me that the Ferrari paint might lift and said in his experience he's lifted more paint off of Ferraris than all other brands combined. I had decided to get the front bumper refinished anyways, so I asked my trusted body shop to remove the film while I was out of town for business. The body shop owner called me and said that he carefully removed the film with the front bumper, the front part of the rear bumper and both side skirts. Paint lifted in all areas. He asked me to have the PPF guy go to the shop to remove the film on the hood and front fenders. The PPF guy felt that paint would not lift from those areas, but agreed to do it any ways. Even with technique and ample amounts of applied heat, large areas of paint lifted on both front fenders as well. Fortunately the hood is completely fine. The body shop owner is certain that the car has not previously been resprayed.

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  25. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Exactly!


    Sent from my 16M
     

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