Hi guys, I read the forum a lot, but this is the first time, that I am in a need to open a thread. I have a 430 Scuderia, which I bought last year and I never had any problems with it at all. However, this summer the weather became really hot (I live in Greece) and several times I have got an orange "SLOW DOWN" light. I have read several threads about this problem and many people say that air in the F1 system can cause that. However, after bleeding the system with a Leonardo system, the problem still remains and the mechanic says there are no error codes stored in the ECU. The problem is, that after the car cools down, everything is fine. Actually when the light comes on there is still nothing wrong with the car - it changes gears and drives OK, but the light flashes and then remains static for about 10 seconds. This only happens when it is really hot outside and I have driven the car for at least 30 minutes, but after that it always happens - the light flashes, then stays static, then dissapears - then after several minutes the same story happens again. The mechanic tells me he doesn't know what to do and when I have taken the car to the dealership - they told me that there are no error codes stored in the ecu, that are related to the F1 system. There are only several present errors and they are saying something like "ECU connection failure". I am ready to all kind of help, because I am desperate... This may seem like a small problem, but it really bothers me, because no one can fix it
Not saying this is your problem but I had the slow down light come on in my 360 and it was related to one of the small exhaust control computers. Not sure if it's the same on the scud or what they are officially called. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Supposedly an overheated cat. My 360 did it on a warm day, killed the output power for about 300 yards and then the warning went away and went back to normal. Then the next weekend while warming up in my garage "slow dow" returned only after 20 seconds of running.. ! I shut it down and used the battery kill switch to clear the anomoly..... that was about two months ago and it has not returned. Your results.may vary.
With the hot weather your having if it orange SLOW DOWN it could be with F1 pump is getting weak could be losing pressure to the system that why it work fine when cool down, remember the F1 pump control pressure to the F1 and E Diff system it working hard in that heat, the Leonardo should tell you the pressure should be about 48 to 50 lbs. at all times COLD or HOT but you could have air or dirty oil in the system also but you said you bleed the system, i would flush the F1 system and bleed F1 system and eDiff again with the Leonardo and if the SLOW DOWN was RED then that another story then you would of had a overheat CAT,s or ECU or thermocoupler but that would of set off all kinds of CODES and would of cut off power loss to save engine damage.
Slow-down light is usually to warn of overheating catalytic converter. This could be a real problem, or it could be the sensor/thermo-coupler/computer monitoring it. The latter has often been the case on older models... E.g. #19 in RACING EXHAUST SYSTEM - Ricambi America, Inc.
Amber slow down is normally an overheating E-diff but also occurs if there is low pressure in the differential loop - usually caused ny a failing E-diff solenoid or pump motor. MY08 F430's onwards don't have EGT sensors / thermocouples.
Hi guys, the light is orange and not red. So the problem is F1 (e-diff) related. The oil in the gearbox is new, the gearbox filter is clean, the oil level is fine and the F1 pump has been changed just before I bought the car last year...
I second the poster two above me. The slow down light has nothing to do with any of the F1 system. It's solely exhaust related. Ferrari and Maseratis have thermocouplers that monitor the heat of each bank. See #19 of the Poster's hyperlink above. It could be a cat issue or a computer issue that monitors it. When it works as it should, it comes on to let you know your exhaust gas temperatures are really high in whichever bank it's triggering in. It should also cut the fuel to that bank so as not to damage the cat. So "slow down" your spirited driving to allow it to cool. The early cars like the 360 had a control station, the 430's are directly connected to the ECU. This could be caused by a misfire on that bank dumping excessive fuel in and heating that bank. It could be caused by a faulty O2. You need to check the engine data for your car to verify it. You stated it had no codes when you plugged in correct? What about the fuel trims?
I agree if it was in RED SLOW DOWN and flashing this would make sence, but it a Amber SLOW DOWN it could be in the F1 and E diff system, it not setting any codes set by the ECU or o2 if it was a o2 or fuel trim it would pick up all kinds of Codes but he not, i still would think i would flush the F1 system and bleed the system could be just a air lock along with dirty oil with the hot weather he having, also the 430 Scuderia don,t have thermocouplers there are block off at the manifolds and have no connection to the ECU on each bank , 360 which do have thermocouplers and ECU on each bank, which this member issue has a 430 Scuderia.
Okay, sorry, I was assuming we were talking about the "red" slow down light but going back to the first post, I realize he stated "amber", Excursion you are correct. The "Red" is only exhaust related.
Yes, there are 2 types of "slow down" lights- red and orange one. Mine is the orange one. Unfortunately at the dealership they told me, that there are no error codes stored in the ECU, so they don't know what to do. The gearbox oil is new, the oil level is to the top, the gearbox filter has been cleaned, and as for the F1 system - the pump has been replaced just before I have purchased the car. The car shifts flawlessly and even when the light starts to blink, it shifts up and down witout problem. I really don't know what to do
I also missed the color of the slow-down light. With a faulty e-diff it could probably still be shifting fine...
A yellow (or orange) slow down light isn't always related to the e-diff, actually most of the times it is related with the F1 system. Also if it is a malfunction in the e-diff, there will be another light showing, the one saying "E-DIFF", I think.
You really need to find someone who knows the car; diagnostic codes are really just a basic starting point - there is a raft of other data accessed by tge SD3 that can be used to hone in on the problem. I am thinking replace the E-diff solenoid but in the absence of solid diagnosis it really is a punt (if you do make sure to observe the fastening torque figure because if you don't it will fail again).
There is a e diff pressure control valve and also e diff pressure switch on the rear left side that could put a e diff light on also a bleeder there which all have to be bleed along with 2 other bleeders on a F430 f1 pump system
Maybe I will ask this first in case I missed it like the color of the light above. Are you stating the dealership used a SD3 or equivalent tool and scanned the gearbox tcu or NCR, and there were no internal codes stored, or are you stating it was a generic scan of the car's ecu with no codes? If it was the first one it would really confused me if they scanned the gear box TCU and they didn't get anything because those codes are usually hard stored for the F1 system. For instance, if you change the battery when I go into the gearbox tcu it will usually come up low voltage, if there's any misshifts, or engagement/selection potentiometer issues that stores as well until I erase and clear them. There are sensors all over that F1 system. If it was a problem, and they did scan it and nothing came up I can see why they wouldn't want to just start parts replacing or be confused on what to do. One last question, did you get the car to mimic the problem while they were there? Was it flashing when they scanned the car?
Nope. "Hard errors" are not always stored in the TCU. It's a pressure issue. In order of most common; 1. Failing F1 pump. Early cars ('05-06) used the 360 pump which is frankly a bit rubbish on a 430. 2. Faulty E-Diff solenoid. 3. Leaking actuator (3 screws accessible once removed from the box.) often accompanied by frothing of the F1 fluid, and sometimes spillage from the overflow pipe 4. Oil leaking into gear position sensors. There are a set of simple checks I use to diagnose a failing pump that I can PM you for your tech if you require it.......
Yes, I called the dealer, described him the problem and sent the car on a trailer. Next day he called me and said that there are NO indications what is happening with the car and from what he sees - the car is fine, I told him to see for himself by leaving the car to get up to temperature and then leave it (it was very hot that day) and after that to drive it fast, so the car can show the light, but unfortunately it didn't show by him. They returned the car and of course the light showed by the next drive... But yes - he said no error codes are stored in the ECU. There is only 2 codes - one showing that probably my battery needs to be changed and the other is something like "vehicle speed sensor". Rustybits, if you can tell me about these checks I will be really grateful, because I am really out of options...
Actually, I stated "usually" and then asked him if they mimiced the conditions, because if it was mimiced they could easily see if it was a pressure issue by reading the pressure on the scan tool, or since you brought it up at that time it's possible when the light came on they would have seen, if related to the differential. Differential 6006 code which is the pressure sensor Differential 6009 low system pressure which comes up when it's below 40 bar Differential 6010 high pressure when it's above 57 bar They could of simply just read what pressure was being built in the system by the F1 pump by reading the data from the pressure sensor itself. Additionally you mentioned the gear position sensors and oil leaking into them causing them to fail. Whenever I've personally had the engagement selection potiometers fail they throw code P1741 for the engagement pot, or P1742 selection potiometer. On top of that it usually puts the car into fail safe mode because the car no longer knows what gear it's in and was programmed to do so to protect itself. IIRC they are passive hall effect sensors. But don't take my word for it because I don't like to give, I think you called it "scatter attack internet diagnosis" in another thread, which btw is what anyone, including yourself is giving if they don't have the car right in front of them plugging into it. Here is what Ferrari's/Maserati's Advanced electronics book list in their table of putting one of their cars in limp home or (recovery) mode: "Faults that enable the limp home mode (recovery) 1.)Engagement Potentiometer 2.)Selection potentiometer 3.)Engine Rpm 4.)Clutch rpm 5.)Vehicle speed 6.)Relay Cranking 7.)Brake Pedal 8.)Can Message Transmission 9.)Can Message Reception 10.)Engagement and Selection Potentiometer switch ......." Additionally, he stated that there was a hard code stored for the "vehicle speed sensor". Now of course like you, I don't know if that's related to the issue at all or if it's like the F355 I was working on last week with the speed sensor issue, it wouldn't shift sometimes and the speedometer wouldn't work, and would go into fail safe. I don't know because like you I don't have my scan tool plugged up to it. I'm not mimicing the same thing the client is experiencing as it sits in front of me. Also the elementary stuff about a failing F1 pump, if he has to tell those techs about, and they cannot run the scan tool to figure that type of information out on their own. He should be taking his car to someone else. The car shouldn't even be there in the first place. But like you that's just my opinion, and the OP thinks you can help him out, so I will respectfully bow out of this situation.
You are right Craig. Internet diagnosis and not actually having the car in front of you can be a disaster. It's very easy to give misleading information, like you did earlier by stating the slow down warning is solely used for cat temps? I'll PM you vic8...
What Ferrari dealer looking at this 430 and couldnt do or find anything on a Amber SLOW DOWN light, I work on these 430 all the time it is a simple F1 issue with using the right Diagnostic tool which i use is the Leonardo system could solve this problem, last time i had one of these Amber SLOW DOWN it was a simple small green O,ring was broken in the E Diff pressure valve replace the seal bleed the F1 and the E diff with Leonardo and was fixed,
Actually you seem to have a problem reading as well. It wasn't misleading at all. Go back and read it again, the red slow down is solely for an exhaust related issue. Nothing misleading about that. Which is what I clarified afterward, when I went back and read he stated amber. Which isn't unlike the question you asked the OP about when you made the remark in the other thread when you asked him if his car shifted passed second. If you read his first post, he clearly answered that. Like myself you obviously didn't read his initial post. Particularly, I don't mind the mistake, happens all the time. I think you need to be careful about the high horse you are sitting on. As far as I know not one mechanic I've ever met or worked with hasn't made many mistakes in diagnosing a problem. It's usually how they become better. Again kind of like you did above talking about the engagement/selection pots. They are completely passive hall effects that send a signal when the gearshift command shaft of the actuator moves. That was completely misleading and inaccurate information btw, nice how your pride allowed you to brush that right off. As well I noticed you left out a bunch of information becoming of an F1 pump failing, like when the resistance of that motor increases it could also blow the F1 fuse. The normal current runs at 27.55 amps, when it starts to fail sometimes it spikes it, and kills the fuse. Or if it actually completely fails it won't shift at all or will disable the car so it won't start once the hydraulic pressure bleeds out. Additionally, it will sometimes throw it into neutral because it cannot keep system pressure. Furthermore, like a starter motor they can develop flat spots in them. You can hit them with a hammer and off they go again. Like I initially stated all of this information is elementary though, I would endeavour to say those techs probably would have known if this was the case, although he did state they couldn't replicate the conditions. Just make sure you cover the basics in your internet diagnosis when you help those Techs along working on the OPs car. Seems really important you think you are better than you are at this.
