SDL with new hyperflows, new rear o2 sensors, changed oil and reinstalled right temp

I ordered two of the EGT single channel units and am sourcing the connectors so that I wont have to alter the plugs in the car.

They did not know what the "cold" voltage output is but said the unit puts out voltage down to 0 degrees centigrade. I'll find out for sure.

I want to order one of their TC as well. They use 3/8 x16 thread on the nut. Is that a standard size and is that what is on the cats?

 

I asked Troy at hyperflow He said it is an odd ball thread. 12x 1.25. He said it is different on some models. Go figure!

I believe my TC are OK so I just wanted to have a new one of theirs for testing purposes but when I Have it in my hands Ill see if I can get it installed.

 

Update. Received the new ecu from Dave, plugged it in left side with car cold, .52v. Gradually increased to 1.6v when I unplugged it and plugged old one back in and stuck at .52v

So definitely have one bad ecu. I'll trust the other eide soon

I have received the EGY units and wi report more on them when I recurve the proper connectors to install them.

 

LOL I didnt really expect an informative answer.

The Ingenier Vescovini who has taken note of your e-mail address, confirmed
me with regret that we can not give information about it because it is a
design FERRARI and therefore you need to contact them directly.
We take this occasion to send you our best regards.

G.Manghi
Ingg. Vescovini S.r.l.
Via Varese, 17/A 43100 Parma - ITALY
Tel. 0521 968.409 Fax 0521 967.102
email: [email protected]

-----Messaggio originale----- From: Ingg. Vescovini S.r.l.
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 9:23 AM
To: Manghi Gianpaolo
Subject: Fw: Ferrari part



-----Messaggio originale----- From: Bob Ferraris
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 2:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Ferrari part

Dear Sirs:

I am writing from the USA concerning a part that you make for Ferrari cars.

I am referring to the exhaust temperature control unit. I own a f355 and
there are three of these modules in it. I am currently having a problem
with the slow down light that is generated as a result of the voltage
signals coming from the units ad am trying to diagnose the problem.

I have pulled all three units from my car and bench tested using a power
supply and heating the thermocouple in a flame. The baseline voltage is
.55v and the voltage rises as the heat is applied in all three units.

On putting the units back in the car, only one of them output a voltage
higher than .55V.

Of the three units I have, one is black and the other two are green. The
green ones are not rising with exhaust temperature rising beyond the .55
volts. The black one rises to over 2V as the heat rises. I have
switched the inputs and outputs to the units and am confident that only
the black one is responding, yet on my bench they all seem to function.

My questions are these:

1) What causes these units to malfunction in the car?

2) What is the difference between the black and green models. I am aware
that the green models superseded the black ones as some sort of improved
version. What was changed?

3) Is there a way to repair these units?

Any help you can give me would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Bob Ferraris

--
Bob Ferraris

 

Here is a video of the egt unit connected to the left cat from start up to full temp at idle about 8 minutes.

On initial start up cold it showed .22v but by the time I started the video, less than a minute it had risen to .6 or so. I think that cat only connection might be ok

The componentry in this stuff says max temp of 83c. 176f. I lasered the ecu still installed at 100f and this unit laying near at 110f.

This unit has no silicone or epoxy covering but that could be added.

Next I am going to terminate the leads on two of these and actually install the outputs to the ecu. Clear all codes and see what happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egGVFWwOln0&feature=youtube_gdata - Video Tube for YouTube - iPhone/iPad


Bob Ferraris

 

I connected both egt units , cleared the codes and sdl and went for a ride monitoring the outputs.

Some interesting observations. On start up the egt units start at .25 volts which I think makes the car run rich until it warms up and the voltage quickly rises. Driving the car ,checking both cat outputs, the rt cat went to 1.2 v and the left cat was similar. Then a sdl light came on. I checked the left cat and it was at .5v , right cat at 1.2 v. I knew something was odd, I pulled over and wiggled the connectors on the left side and it went to 2.5 v and...the sdl went out without me clearing it.

So..significant data point...a low voltage reading when other parameters are telling the ecu the cat should be hot, triggers a sdl. By just getting higher voltage to the ecu the sdl went off

Drove another ten miles. Left cat stayed at 2.8. , rt. was at 1.1. Came home and shot cats with the laser and the right cat was actually warmer than the left cat. I wiggled the tc connection on the left and the voltage jumped all over. There is obviously an issue with the tc connectors. I switched the egt units right to left and the issue stayed on the left. So that higher voltage level is either real which temp check didn't prove out or something is errant in the tc or the connector on that side. It responds but maybe not accurately. I'll switch tc rt to left tomorrow and see if that issue moves

These units seem to work ok at least for now. There is no protection for the board, it just sits in a plastic box and they used 20 g wire so the bundle needs to me made more durable and of course they need to be affixed. I'll keep working with them and speak to the manufacturers and see if they are inclined to custom something. I did source the correct connectors and pins to simplify the install. It is just plug and play after you make up the plugs. There are available products to encase and protect the board if desired.,

 

I'm wiggling the Tc coupling pictured above. Left cat. The intermittency stayed on the left side when switching the egt r and l so the issue is in the Tc side of the coupling

A point of reference which I have discussed with John privately is this. In researching this Tc issue and connecting Tc to electronic boards I have come to learn that in the industry of heat sensor controls using Tc it is a no no to use any material in line or in a connector of a Tc that is not the same material as the Tc itself and it's wires.

Egt provided me a coupling that is pictured on their site the small yellow one that has screw binding and wide flat pins made of Tc material. The company who most refer to in Tc business is Omega Engineering. Google them. I spoke with a tech there and he concurred with this and pointed me to a connector they make that is $125. Bsck to reality. They also make solid state pins to be used in applications like the viscovini board.

I sincerely doubt that Ferrari uses correct pins and connections in our Tc couplings. I did not YET want to cut my connector off my Tc so I configured it to the egt unit as it is configured in the visco box. It is that connector that is giving me trouble.

I did get plenty of the Tc connectors and pins so I may just clip it off and use that thing egt sent me. I'll mess with it tomorrow.

As far as locating it in the cabin. Could be done , just long Tc wires and tapping into the signal line and providing voltage and ground. Have to run through the firewall etc. Gets a bit hairy for average person to deal with. By doing it this way it is simple plug in

John, the center is at 2.3 v so you may bec right about the right. But honestly I don't think it's the cats. I think it's the Tc connection. .

I'm not sure about the fuel mixture. The car sounds rough at start up. I am thinking that the Tc provide info for mixture adjustment via exhaust temp besides just cat health. Maybe Brian can chime in on this. Why would the visco unit start cold at .6 if it didn't matter. I am still s bit bothered by all the hardware in the visco unit. Someone though it needed a lot more logic than the egt unit. ???????

 

Along those lines, egt makes these in a 3 channel version so you would only need one ac and ground lead in say the ecu comportment. Using the positaps you could identify and tap the three signal wires in the bundle and route three Tc extensions to that location

They sent me one of the Tc they sell as well. It is a nice looking unit with a 72" lead on it. I think the probe part is to short and won't be in the exhaust flow like the OEM ones are. I'll mess with that today as well.

 

What the heck are they doing with all that hardware in those things? It simply transmits a voltage. There isn't any other input parameter other than the tc and there is no feedback from the motronics. The output curve is linear if the other johns plotting of it is correct. The simplicity of the design of the egt unit shows what is needed to amplify and transmit voltage. The case and the onboard connectors make it nifty but there is so much more stuff on that board ???

 

I hear you. Maybe the egt guys can customize the board easily.

Was just out messing with tc connection. I got some connectors that look just like the tc plugs but... The pin floats in the female part in the tc termination. What I got was some generic look alike. The tc has amp super seals on them. Found them online so the sloppy tc transmission is my fault.

I'm so tempted to cut the tc plugs and use these hardwire things. I may do that and get the right plugs and put them back on if I decide to go that way.

 

Yes they are the industry leaders in tc biz

An interesting development along those lines. Trying to rectify that lousy connection on the left side. Opened connector , increased contact on the female which is on the tc side. Remade the male side. No good. Switched egt units rt to left. No good. Put working vesco unit on. No good. I'm thinking I have a bad tc.

Jury rig tc i got from egt into cat. Nut doesn't work but in good enough. Couple this new tc to egt unit using below connectors that industry uses that has correct metals internally. Get good voltage reading nicely climbing on warm up etc. ok. I must have a bad tc

Last ditch effort, cut off connector of OEM tc and connect to egt unit as pictured. Voila!!! Nicely functioning tc/ egt that doesn't flinch when i manipulate it and voltages nicely climbing. The visual on the crimp and pins looked fine. So....
A
John doesn't want to hear it but, I am thinking that the improper use of non tc materials as Omega told me is creating issues!!! The vesco units are not using these materials.
I now have one side connected as above, the other side ,right, is connected using the OEM plug and my provided mate which has a less than desirable pin fit. I think I am going to go with the correct connectors and run it for awhile. Right now I have a bit over 1 v on both sides on warm idle.

Feel like I'm making progress. I a going to talk to egt today and see what they say about adjusting the initial output.

FYI. I found an independent circuit board diagnosis and repair facility that is willing to have a look at my ng vesco unit. So we may have some independent assessment of design or trouble issues on them.