OK, omgjon encouraged me into sharing part of my latest project. I grew tired of the yellow dust coming out of the nooks and crannies every time I sat in or moved the seats in my 73 Dino, #04788. This solid car was stored inside for many years and has only 25,000 original miles, so how bad could it be, right? It's apart for restoration, so now is a good time. I started searching for new foam, but was not surprised to learn the OEM foam is no longer available. I could only find seat insert foam that was very expensive, and looked like it needed some work to boot. I couldn't find any seat frame foam at all. In typical form, (very high green & yellow Kolbe) I decided to make it myself. I firmly resolved to do the insert foam only, and planned to just seal up the cracks in the seat frame leather so the dust wouldn't leak out any more. But, the project has snowballed due largely to the HORRENDOUS stench of the decomposing urethane foam (urea, urine??). The materials were inexpensive. Electric knife: $15.00 Various foam from two local suppliers: $60.00 High quality spray adhesive: 3 cans / $36.00 total. Hog ring pliers and hog rings: $40.00 Webbing stretcher pliers: $35.00 I'm not sure if the two gallons of Leatherique conditioner and cleaner should be included at $180.00, but that is where I started. (With about 12 coats to the seat covers until they wouldn't take any more in. An interesting side note is the leather will soak up lots more conditioner when applied from the back side of the seat covers) The leather got nice and soft, but you could feel the foam cracking underneath, like breaking potato chips inside the bag. I made lots of patterns and measurements of the various profiles to ensure the end product was accurate. The foams I chose were higher quality but similar densities to the OEM from what I could tell. The original Pirelli rubber webbing underneath the seat inserts was in great shape and I will be reusing it when all goes together. Here are some pics. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think a lot of Dino will be in the same boat. Good going Jon! Keep up the good work. Regards, Alberto
With the new seat inserts now firmly behind me (ha) I decided to take off "just a few staples here and there" to be better able to blow the pesky yellow dust out of the seat frames. Once all the dust was out, I would simply seal in the stinking leaking cracks once and for all with black silicone. Shoulda known better............ Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
In for a penny, in for a pound. I've never been afraid of getting dirty. With that funny feeling of "I can't believe I am actually going to do this," I decided to take the seat cover off and get a good look. How bad could it actually be? It's just a little dust. The good news is, the seat cover came off easily. the bad news is, well, look at the pics below. To anyone brave or foolish enough to follow this next step, I strongly recommend a dust mask. In addition to the dust, the stench of the decaying urethane foam is unbelievable. Imagine the smell of a poorly maintained summer camp mens bathroom in July heat. (Sorry to say, but hope that makes the point.) Tifosi, this can't be healthy..... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, the damage assessment was: new foam is in order. Here are some pics that will hopefully explain the process I went through to produce an accurate seat foam. The most time consuming task was creating the profile templates from half of the seat. If I had some decent profile gauges, I could have saved hours. The seat was indexed to several diagrams drawn onto the table top for creating numbered profiles and as a check fixture when shaping the new half foam. It's OK to flip the seat around to work on it, but return it to the index diagram to check the profiles. After trying several styles of sanders and grinders, I settled on a simple block sander with 36 grit sandpaper as the best way to shape the foam into the final shape. The bulk of the shaping was done with an electric knife. The old rule of "measure twice, cut once" was appropriate. As far as mistakes, any cut removed that was too deep could simply be glued back with spray adhesive and reshaped correctly. Once I had successfully copied half the seat, I stripped away the remaining old foam and repeated the process on the other side of the seat frame. The same profile templates were used, just reversed. The second half of the seat foam took about one quarter of the time to create compared to the first half. You may notice that new tack strip was fabricated and installed. It is just 1/8" masonite board that is pop-riveted to the seat frame. As insurance against getting in over my head, I left one original seat intact for reference until all is finished. Seat #2 should rebuild very quickly as I now have my templates and a technique. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks Tony. I looked at the Superformance product on line and compared it to my original on the bench before deciding which way to go. It did not look very accurate, so I wasn't impressed enough to buy. (and wait) I calculated their pricing at over $400 USD delivered for just two seat insert foams. The insert foam I used was only $20.00 from a local supplier and I have a ton left over. It's rated at an 85 density, which is very high quality. Once I saw the price and quality difference, I didn't think too much more about it, I just did it. (It's a good way to justify buying more tools too.)
Its a pity about the price as you say, and i just love the reasoning to buy more tools as well. I use that excuse to the wife!!! I did see the foam inserts at SF as my seats suffer the same problem. They looked very good quality to me. But i am no car trimmer so i cannot judge it as an expert. I admire your skill in tackling the problem, something i will have to consider, however it takes an ingenious mind to figure out how to do it. Tony
Here's a picture of the Superformance seat insert foam compared to an original and my hand made copy. My seat foam project is stalled while waiting for a new #71 air stapler to arrive. (ebay) In the mean time, I am conditioning seat #2 in preparation for it's overhaul. The Leatherique conditioner goes on very quickly and evenly if you use it with a spray bottle, rubbing it in by hand afterwards. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
jon, are you planning on using the original leather covers from your old seat? are the inserts cloth? if so, how are you going to skin the original over the new foam and not have fit issues? just curious as it seems like such a good opportunity to save an interior by replacing the foam rather than the interior. i have an original interior car that is doing ok, but the foam and backing are breaking down, to be able to save an original interior like this would be great
Shawn, My intent is to reuse the original leather seat covers. The color is more than fine considering their age, and they have a wonderful patina I want to preserve. Overall they are in great shape, especially now since I have Leatheriqued the heck out of them. Putting the conditioner on both sides of the leather once the seat covers are off makes a big difference in how much conditioner the leather will accept. The back side has a suede texture and really soaks it up. Although the original seat foams broke down badly, there was enough left to determine the correct profile. If anything, I tried to make the new foams just a fuzz larger, as the foam compresses easily and should fill out the leather covers nicely. I can alway shape the foam more or less if I have fit issues. I have never done this exact job before, but am confident I can handle it. The seat inserts are black terry cloth. At one time I had thought they were replacments, but the more I research and compare pictures of other Dinos with OEM terry cloth inserts, the more I suspect they may be OEM. I plan to reuse them in any case as they are most likely original, so I want restore and preserve them. The delivery paper work just says "black", so who can tell for sure. Do you know of any 72 - 73 Dinos with OEM black terry cloth inserts? I believe it was an option. The pleated door panel inserts are black leather and the leather is in great shape overall. However, like the seat foam, the foam behind the pleats has broken down so the door panel insert doesn't have it's "poofiness" any more. You can see the leather kind of sagging between the sewn pleats. If you compare the "poofiness" of the pleats behind the door pockets (foam is OK there) to the pleats on the upper door, the difference is quite visible. In the interests of restoring vs. replacing, I am going to carefully take the leather off the insert panels, pull out all the threads and have new cloth backed foam sewn in on the exact same seams. I believe I can get away with this once without any seam failure because the leather is in good shape. We will test this on an area behind the door pockets first to make sure the seams can take being sewn twice. The main door panel leather is in good shape, except for where some doofus cut speaker holes in the usual location. They are not super bad holes, so again I am planning to do the extra work to restore vs replace and will put black leather covered speaker grilles with speakers in the finished product. The door panel itself is just plain old wood particle 1/4" Masonite board. It is the original Ferrari OEM and as such never had any protection from water or humidity. They have swelled up and warped badly, but again the leather is fine. I am going to carefully strip the leather and beading off, remake the door panels with a resin impregnated Masonite type product, and reskin the new improved panels with the OEM interior. I will most likely have the old warped Masonite boards digitized and the new boards laser burned. That way if anyone else needs new improved boards they are easily duplicated. I am going to go the extra mile to save as much original interior as possible.
Good Stuff, Jon. You've motivated me to take a closer look at my seats & panels to see what they might need. Mine appear, at first glance, to be in pretty good shape. The main problem is, the car was stored,presumably inside, for a period of time before I took custody. It has that kinda moldy/musty 'fragrance' inside, and I can scrub a light film of dry dust (mold?) off of the surface of the vinyl, and vacuum a brownish, dusty fuzz off of the carpet and from under the dash. I'll watch as you continue. Coop
Thanks for the encouragement everybody. Coop, What happens when you touch your headliner? In my coupe there is (was!) a layer of brown 1/4" foam glued to the bottom side metal roof skin. (it's brown now, but could have been green or red etc. when new) That foam breaks down into dust and will rain through the holes in the headliner like a big salt shaker. The dust will fall on to your interior with static cling and spread around when you turn on the HVAC system and when the windows are down. Dmnstuff talked in one of his posts about how he rid his car of the old foam without removing the headliner completely. I also found disentegrated foam in my center console parts as well as the door panels. The largest source of stink in the car is most likely the seat foams.
Jon, The red/brown specks are from my sun visors. I don't even have to touch them; vibration from driving is sufficient to generously dust me & the interior! I placed clear plastic sleeves over them...like a newspaper in its plastic bag...to capture the fallout! I'll check the headliner & see what's happening there. Thanks. The 'dry' dust/mold I referred to is firmly attached to the vertical and underside surfaces, too. It doesn't easily disappear when vacuumed. It takes some aggitation, like with a toothbrush, to get it to release. Then the vac can suck it up! Even after vacuuming the carpet, there is a slight moldy scent in the fibers. The vinyl surfaces do lose the odor after thorough cleaning with mild soap and a gentle brush. I followed up with an application of Meguiar's Vinyl and Rubber Protectant on one of the door panels & it seems to have done the job. I'm not sure what to put on the vinyl seats, as I don't want them to be too slippery or shiny. Any suggestions? Thanks, Coop
Coop, Sounds like you have the mold? thing under control, but I wonder what the source is / was? It sounds frustrating. They may have stored the car closed up with something damp inside. Leatherique says their leather conditioner system is good on vinyl, better than Armorall. I haven't tried it yet on anything but leather. I will do a few vinyl parts and let you know my impressions.
Jon, Thanks for the tip on the Leatherique. I need to get some for my wife's car; I'll try it on the Dino, too. Yeah, I've had a couple of other cars from Europe that had been in lengthy storage & they had the same odor. I imagine the only absolute cure is to take it all apart & clean or replace everything. My car's at a friend's house as he has a couple of lifts. I'm gettin' too old (not THAT old) to lay on my back under the Dino. Since I'm still working on the cooling system (pump, hoses, pipes, rad), oil hoses, fuel hoses and CVs, the lift is a Godsend! Once the car is back here, I'll go after the interior issues. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on this thread. Your seats are looking super. I'm anxious to see the finished product. Coop
The new air stapler arrived yesterday. $50.00 delivered. Seat cover #1 went on very nicely overall with a relatively small learing curve. One lesson learned: Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Don't overcondition your leather if you are planning work with it again soon. (I didn't, but could have if I had gone much further with conditioning.) I had some minor problems with the leather being so soft and the staples caused tearing in a few spots. Fortunately this was all 100% invisible and covered. To get around this I used two 2 inch wide double sided velcro straps as four extra hands to help compress the foam and position the leather. This took the extra strain off the staples and prevented tearing while tacking the cover in place. The next seat should go much easier with this simple trick. The last pic is something I plan to install with velcro to the inside of the removable fiberglass rear seat cover. I may have to put a few extra screws in the fiberglass cover to prevent bowing when the lumbar bladder is pumped way up. The bulb will have a quick release if you want to hide it. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, to finish this thread up, here are pictures of the last steps required in the process and the finished seat with all new foam. (left side in last picture) I am very happy with the results. No yellow foam dust every time you sit in it, no nasty smells and the leather is so supple it scares me. Seat #2 is on deck and should fly through the process in comparison to seat #1. If anyone wants more detailed pics from the rebuild of seat #2, please let me know and I will post the info. Best regards to all who followed, Jon Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Jon, what a great resto! Did you replace the center part of the upholstery or is it stock? I will be sure to follow these steps when it comes to my seats. Except for the fact that mine are completely shot, at least the foam is an approachable project. Thank you! Regards, Alberto
Thanks Alberto. I did not replace the center sections. I think they are OEM, but could be mistaken. No one has chimed in to tell me I am wrong yet, for what it matters. I like it, so I am keeping it this way. Jon
I had some requests for more details from seat #2, so I will post a few more pics to hopefully explain the process better. The foam on seat #2 was in slightly better shape overall, but still on the fast track out of town. Thankfully it is way less stinky. The steel seat frame has a slight hand made twist that made me have to adjust heights only in one area, but the profiles are very similar to seat #1. I also went to visit a local foam molder today. I am considering making a mold to (re?) cast the seat frame foams. Is anyone interested in such a thing? Does anyone know of a seat frame foam product like this already in existence? (I sent an e-mail to Superformance already) Please chime in as it is decision time on which way to proceed. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
