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Seb out of SF for 2021

Discussion in 'F1' started by 11506apollo, May 11, 2020.

  1. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    +1 Agree
     
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  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,584
    A) I don't think the tires can take as much speed as the Mercs can dish out.
    B) way back there are a bunch of the lesser quality drivers with fewer qualms of taking Lewis out.
     
  3. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Really who? Every driver in F1 covets a seat at Mercedes so they offer little resistance. The only drivers to give him a fight are Max, Seb and Charles. Magnussen maybe.
     
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  4. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ocon in Monaco was tragically hilarious.
     
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  5. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Ocon, here is one who could lose his job very soon !
     
  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Won't be missed by me, and I'm sure most of the F1 paddock
     
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  7. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    MC Cool Breeze
    German 4x WDC + With German Team + Cheaper option...you might not know Toto's ideas..
     
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  8. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    BaWü
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  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Why so much hate?
    It's close to be irrationnal
     
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  10. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    He's arrogant and unlikable.

    For me it's not about the Verstappen crash, which I can forgive as mistakes happen by all drivers. I didn't like him before it, but I loathed him afterwards. When (he thought) the cameras where off him, it showed his true character. That smile he had when Verstappen shoved him said it all. It was that ''I've got you now...and I'll be going to the teachers'' moment for him.

    He's not terribly well liked in the paddock, either. And this was before the crash.
     
  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    He wasn't best liked at Racing Point.
     
  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    Ok he is the villain
     
  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I only go by what I read.
    Ocon was a bit of a "smarty pants" according to some members of staff at Racing Points.
    Otmar Szafnauer, the team boss, didn't miss him.
     
  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    This !
    Vettel won 9 races in a row in 2013
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Yep, people tend to forget that Vettel had his good years too.

    I remember, he was hated by the tifosi at the time ...
     
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  16. 11506apollo

    11506apollo Formula 3
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    Yes, I remenber well when we all mocked Seb for his "number one" finger at each victory with the sugary beverage car....lol
     
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  17. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    And Red Bull wasn't accepted as a proper team by the tifosi, but constantly called "the cans".

    Well, the cans pocketed 8 titles in 4 years, and have remained a strong oppostion to Mercedes all through the hybrid era.

    They were about to start this season as the main challenge to Mercedes, if nor for events in Wuhan ...
     
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  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

    To be honest , i don't buy the Mercedes domination for six years in a row with the same investment compared to Ferrari or red Bull.
    In fact i suspect 30-40% more spending.
    ( just a guess i know )
     
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Until now, there was no budget cap.
    Let's see how Mercedes will fare next year with one.
    I think that even when you create an even playing field (like in a specs series), the best teams and the best drivers will always come to the front.
    I think it's a lure to believe that the budget cap will equalise the teams in F1.
     
  20. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Most forget (or don't know) is that finger is one that was almost completely sliced off in a F3.5 accident
    Mercedes had a few things going for them:
    They where, together with Renault, the ones that insisted on a very complicated hybrid engine and started pushing for it, with the threat of leaving the sport if their wishes weren't met. They got a massive head start already when Ferrari was still arguing that it should be a V6 at least instead of the straight 4. That was all trivial to Mercedes, they where simply perfecting their setup already at this point..whatever layout was to be used, they had something ready.

    Then, somehow they managed to convince that an engine freeze was necessary (quite how they managed that I'll never know, we can only speculate), of course, for a very complicated engine in a brand new formula, this is utterly ridiculous. When the freeze was lifted and we got an idiotic token system to replace it, teams where trying to catch up to Mercedes, who now had so much extra race data in a better package, when the rest caught up they where already streaks ahead! Of course this kept going on until the freeze was lifted entirely, and still now they enjoy benefits of it.

    Then there is their enormous, never ending budget. Mercedes employs some 1600 people. Ferrari is the 2nd largest team with 950 employees, then Red Bull with 800, Mclaren 760 and so on. Haas only has 250 employees! Fine, there's no cap on employees, but a vast budget does help significantly I'm sure we all agree.

    Credit where it's due, Mercedes' inner workings, how Toto manages it, is fantastic. Ross Brawn is hugely to thank (can't use the word blame!) for it. Ross set it all in motion, and of course from his experience at Benetton and Ferrari especially previously, knew how a team should be run and run successfully. With Michael onboard, Aldo costa and Toto, it was quite the dream team. No blame culture which is very important. In 2012, they had 3 (!) separate car developments, the 2012 car, the 2013 and the 2014. When you think that most teams have to at some point make the decision to end development for their current year car to focus on the next, this just tells you the level of investment and commitment, and again, the vast amount of employees, was needed to get this done.

    2014 through to 2015 was Mercedes regardless of engine freeze or not. Beyond that, the FIA is to blame for sitting on their hands like idiots for way too long. Allowing Merc to get away with in season testing, Pirelli bowing to Mercedes' request which tyres should be run at which track...it goes on and on.
     
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Mercedes became the dominant political power in F1, and was able to influence the FIA.
    It simply replaced Ferrari that did the same for many years.
     
  22. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    And neither is right.

    No one wants to see a single team win everything, especially by huge margins. I have great respect for Red Bull because they did so, without having the political influence that Ferrari and especially Mercedes enjoys. It was nearly every other race that the FIA tried to obstruct Red Bull at one point, but Red Bull always managed to stay ahead. Even Ferrari was hampered (of course, they had some things fall into their favour, too). Mercedes seems to get all the favours AND whenever anyone gets close, that team gets obsctructed by the FIA.
     

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