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Seb out of SF for 2021

Discussion in 'F1' started by 11506apollo, May 11, 2020.

  1. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
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    Top Madrid sports paper confirming Sainz as number #2 for Ferrari. See link..

    https://www.marca.com
     
  2. [gTr]

    [gTr] Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2008
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    I find it interesting that you think Seb is leaving Scuderia by choice. I think he was give his marching orders. Someone somewhere in Ferrari woke up and realised that why should they continue to pay $30MM for an over the hill mistake ridden guy when they already have their new number 1 in the team who is also young! I was expecting this to happen last year but at least they only sat on it for a year.
     
  3. LamboLover

    LamboLover Formula 3

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    Wouldn't be surprised if it's a McLaren switch. Ferrari gets a younger driver who shows promise, but can still provide adequate support for Charles. McLaren gets an established vet in an era they've started making strides in & someone who maybe Norris can learn from.

    I really don't see Hamilton walking away from Merc. just to play combat roles with Charles; he already saw a season of that with Nico. I'm positive Charles doesn't want that kind of drama again, either. I can't see Bottas going either when he's already in that situation of second fiddle. I think Merc. remains set unless they both know something's coming.
     
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  4. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

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    Seb was outdriven last year by a 21 year old. Very hard on the psyche of an F1 champ.

    Same thing happened to Alonso in Hamilton's first year. Alonso never recovered. Seb probably won't either.
     
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  5. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    #80 DF1, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    BBC review of how Vettel's decline was actually noted early - https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52627667

    Alonso left at the end of a 2014 season that was Ferrari's least successful for 20 years, the team totally underestimating the new hybrid engine regulations.

    But a regrouping was under way even before he left, the engine made a huge leap into 2015, and Vettel superbly won his second race with the team in Malaysia.

    That first season was only ever meant to build the foundations for the future - Ferrari still had a lot of catching up to do - so to win two further races augured well.

    Inside the team, though, there were already doubts. Vettel, some at Ferrari felt, was not on Alonso's level as a driver. They will have had a detailed view of this, but from the outside the telling piece of information was that Vettel's advantage over team-mate Kimi Raikkonen was nowhere near as big as Alonso's had been in 2014.

    And in 2016, things began to go wrong. The season started well enough, but the renaissance of 2015 began to look like a false dawn.

    The car was less competitive and, as Vettel grew frustrated, his driving became scrappy. In the second half of the season he started to make mistakes, trying to force the car to do things it didn't want to do, drive it in the way he wanted to drive it and not in the way its characteristics demanded.

    He began to lose his cool, too, especially in a notorious incident in Mexico in 2016, when he swore at race director Charlie Whiting over the radio during the race because he was unhappy at Red Bull's Max Verstappen not being penalised for what Vettel perceived as a driving infringement.

    And this -
    With Vettel's deal coming to an end in 2020, the message was clear - Leclerc was the new main man at Ferrari, and if Vettel was going to stay at the team, it would be on their terms, not his. And those terms were clearly not acceptable to a proud man with such great achievements behind him.

    How, now, will those Red Bull seasons be viewed, and his career as a whole? At the time, the plaudits poured in for Vettel. But those prepared to look beyond the results saw how closely Alonso ran him in Ferrari machinery that was nothing like a match for Vettel's Adrian Newey-led designs, and drew their own conclusions.
     
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  6. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
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    True and that wasn’t helped by Ferrari’s piss poor management.
     
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  7. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I always say you make your own luck. No question Team Ferrari has been a problem but Seb is also part of that team....


    Its not all on his shoulders but he's been a part of the problems.
     
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  8. 500tr

    500tr Formula Junior

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    Ok.
    But Seb would have win WDC five and six if Ferrari would have been able to build a competitive car (without any tricks like last season), not to forget a good management. Mercedes has Toto Wolff, RB has Dr. Marko and Christian Horner, we had a man coming from Marlboro, don’t remember his name and now Binotto.
    World Championships are made by teamwork, look at Mercedes. Do you really think Hamilton in place of Seb would have done better? Of course not, because he needs harmony much more than Seb. Was there any harmony in Maranello the last 15 years? Michael had so much success because of his talent, as well because the team leaders were Todt, Brawn and Byrne.
     
  9. Phil~

    Phil~ F1 Rookie
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    Maybe Seb can go back to Red Bull. He knows most there and he would be a good challenge for Max
     
  10. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Excepting for a few races, Vettel never drove "that well" in a car that was not designed by Adrian Newell. Vettel needed the special way Adrian nailed the rear end of the car to the road (pretty close to the contrapositive way Schumacher caused Ferrari to nail the front end to the road during their peak.)
     
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  11. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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  12. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Well said. it is a team sport.....
     
  13. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    I wonder if SF think Alonso would help with the car's development in a way that younger drivers (Sainz) or Ricciardo can't. Otherwise I can't see a good reason to choose him in 2020.
     
  14. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

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    You may be right - I saw the headline in Spanish paper Marca about Sainz and assumed it was a done deal (and I posted same earlier in this thread). Article clearly states that Sainz is only the "leading candidate".

    Marca is tight with Alonso and would presumably know if Alonso has the inside track. The always gush about him. It will be a surprise if Alonso gets the seat and Marca doesn't pre-announce it.

    https://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/2020/05/12/5eba463fca4741172b8b4662.html
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/149394/mercedes-must-take-vettel-news-into-consideration

    Toto Wolff says Mercedes must take Sebastian Vettel's exit from Ferrari into consideration when deciding on its future Formula 1 driver line-up.

    Ferrari announced on Tuesday morning that four-time world champion Vettel would be leaving at the end of the 2020 season after both parties decided against renewing the contract following a breakdown in talks.

    Vettel's departure is set to have major ramifications on the driver market for 2021, reaching as far as the Mercedes team, where incumbent drivers Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas are both out of contract at the end of the year.Mercedes F1 chief Wolff said that while the team was loyal to its existing drivers, it had to consider the effects of Vettel's departure from Ferrari.

    "Sebastian is a great driver, a major personality and an asset to any Formula 1 team," Wolff said.

    "When looking to the future, our first loyalty lies with the current Mercedes drivers.

    "But naturally we must take this development into consideration."


    Mercedes is currently in talks with six-time world champion Hamilton over a new F1 contract, with his existing three-year deal coming to an end in 2020.

    Hamilton has been linked with a switch to Ferrarisince the end of last year after meeting the Italian manufacturer's chairman, John Elkann, at a social event.

    Hamilton has since distanced himself from talk of a move away from Mercedes, saying last month there was "no dream of a dash to another team" in response to reports.

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    Although Hamilton is expected to remain at Mercedes for 2021 and beyond, Vettel's exit will add an extra dimension to his ongoing negotiations with the team given the vacant seat.

    News of Vettel's departure is also set to have a bearing on Bottas' future. The Finn has signed one-year extensions each season with Mercedes since joining in 2017, but was left to sweat until late August last year to be confirmed for 2020.

    Bottas said during pre-season testing he hoped talks over a new contract for 2021 would take place more privately and be resolved earlier than last year.

    The possibility of Ferrari swooping for Bottas as a replacement for Vettel alongside Charles Leclerc may prompt Mercedes to try and advance talks with its driver sooner.

    Were Hamilton to have a change of heart and opt for a sensational move to Ferrari, it would theoretically open up a seat for Vettel should the German driver be of interest to Mercedes.

    An exit for Bottas could create the possibility for a lucrative Hamilton/Vettel partnership in 2021 that would boast at least 10 world titles.

    However, such a possibility seems far off given the financial sums involved, let alone the need to satisfy two drivers who would expect to be the team leader.
     
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  16. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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  17. becker

    becker Formula Junior

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  18. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Anybody but RIC......
     
  19. 375+

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    Gio? Give me a break.
     
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  20. Outrun

    Outrun Karting

    There are a number of factors to consider. The new spending cap, the lost revenue from this year, perhaps some loss of sponsors as they recover from this horrible year.

    On top, there is the tactics. Ferrari usually goes for a 1st and 2nd place driver line up, with clear bias to the lead driver. They have invested in LeClerc heavily and the tifosi and the sponsors like him. And he’s fast. If they choose to support him, then an experienced driver that will get good points, push LeClerc and keep sponsors happy is where the will look. That’s Danny Ric (played 2nd fiddle at Red Bull) or Bottas who is reliable, likeable, quick and out of contract. They may look to Sainz but he has a good deal at McLaren and that team is improving quickly. I’m not sure McLaren will let him go easily, whether he wants to or not.

    Mercedes have dealt with two strong drivers before with Rosberg surprising Hamilton and so I can see a Bottas/Vettel swap. Hamilton and Vettel are good friends and I think both would enjoy facing each other in the same machine, and that is sponsorship gold too which helps pay for two big ticket names.

    If they choose to go cheaper, that’s Giovanazzi who is a competent driver, is Italian, and is a Ferrari young driver. Or maybe George Russell who looks quick and would likely get on well with LeClerc.

    If it was my choice, I’d choose Bottas as the combination with LeClerc may well win the constructors title, and challenge for the drivers one too.
     
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  21. 375+

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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Vettel at Mclaren if Hamilton stays put. Bear in mind they will have Mercedes power next year. A 4 time German WDC with Mercedes engines will be pretty attractive to sponsors. Mclaren is a team on the ascent.
     
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  22. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

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    What title? :oops:
     
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  23. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Exactly. I like the guy but apart from that time when he had to qualify the car in 2018 (?) Australia with just the Saturday practice under his belt, he hasn't done anything impressive still.

    I really hope we'll see Ricciardo in the seat but I just keep thinking that in reality, Ricciardo is his own biggest enemy by being too good and potential for fireworks inside the team. IMO that's the real reason why Ferrari won't keep Vettel, they prefer a clear No1 and a clear No 2, so Sainz is the most likely to get the seat.

    Which will be a true and utter shame as Ricciardo would shine at Ferrari. I also believe that Ricciardo's presence within the team will lift the team up massively, as he'll motivate the Italians.

    Vettel inherited a rotten team and the team then received constant ''shake ups''. Don't forget that Vettel had to practically manage the team as well at certain points, he did the pit calls half the time even as the ones he received from the wall where so utterly stupid, Vettel with minimal information was able to make better calls...Sure he's made his mistakes, and they where frustrating for all involved...but in the end I think it'll be another step back for Ferrari if they hire Sainz. I don't think Leclerc or Sainz are good to lead a team just yet. Sorry, fit to lead FERRARI. I have big question marks for Ferrari's leadership still...

    On a somewhat similar scale, Verstappen effectively took over the leadership position, but Red Bull is structured vastly different. Horner is an ex-racer himself, and from Monaco 2018 onwards Max had shown he changed for the better. Leclerc, to me he hasn't shown anything like that yet.

    Ferrari needs a wise and experienced driver-leader, and I can see no one other than Ricciardo doing that. Alonso is too self-centered, Hamilton is the only one within Mercedes that runs a ''blame everyone'' mentality (a team famous for having a no-blame culture), Bottas is useless, Verstappen has no reason to take the seat...maybe Kimi but he'll need a 2 year contract (anyone does).
     
  24. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Do you really think Red Bull wants to recruit someone to challenge Verstappen ?
    Red Bull probably wishes to keep the harmony within the team.
    Max don't need a challenger; he motivates himself!
     
  25. william

    william F1 World Champ

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