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Secondary Air Pump

Discussion in '360/430' started by alex360S, Dec 4, 2008.

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  1. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    #1 alex360S, Dec 4, 2008
    Has anyone had to replace their secondary air pump on their 360 and what was the reason for the change? When I start my car up I believe what I am hearing is the pump and it is making a loud turbine type of noise. It goes on for around 30-45 secs and then goes off. But often I hear it cycle several times after that, is this normal? I never heard this loud turbine noise before, and I do notice the exhaust stinks more than ever on a cold start up. The car was in recently for lots of service including clutch,cam seals and bearings, timing belt etc. After getting the car back I noticed the noise and shortly after got a CEL. The dealer said the sd2 says that the secondary air pump failed but they were able to operate it thru the sd2 without any problems. They removed the CEL but after a couple of runs it's back. Any thoughts and can I replace the pump myself or does it require special tooling and knowledge?
     
  2. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    #2 dan360, Dec 5, 2008
    What year is your car? I had a bunch of CELs on an 02 which were related to secondary air system that required the ECUs to be replaced, it was apparently a problem with a specific ECU revision and affected a number of '02s. That said, its now 2008 and it'd be suprising that this kind of problem just occurred now. I'd take it back to the dealer :)
     
  3. alex360S

    alex360S Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2006
    324
    Montreal, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Alex
    #3 alex360S, Dec 5, 2008
    The car is an '02. Which ECU's did they replace and what was the total cost? I'm convinced that the pump is on it's way out but why the loud noise now after the service??
     
  4. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

    May 27, 2007
    1,114
    Chino hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Robin
    #4 mrpcar, Dec 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Alex,

    Not sure if this would apply to the 360s. From my understanding of the SAI circuit, the air pump pumps fresh air to a SAI one way valve during the cold start cycle and the one way valve opens to allow fresh air to be mixed with fuel rich air in the exhaust port and then out. The one way valve operates by ways of vaccum pressure, if the vaccum hose is off for some reason the valve would stay close which would cause the air pump to sound louder than normal. Same principal when you block the end of the hose on your vaccum cleaner. But since there are no fresh air entering the exhaust ports on start up the O2 sensor is not sending the proper voltage drop to the DME and sets off the CEL. I do remember that there are two SAI one way valve in the 360 engine bay, one on each side.

    You might want to check the vaccum connection first.
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  5. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    #5 dan360, Dec 5, 2008
    Any time there is a new noise after service, I get suspicious! For my old car, both ECUs were replaced under warranty, but they're pretty expensive (like 3K each) if it is that. However it seems unlikely it is that.
     
  6. 8haggis

    8haggis Rookie

    Jun 15, 2008
    40
    Novi, MI
    #6 8haggis, Dec 5, 2008
    I'm not sure that the SAIR valve in that picture is a vacuum operated valve. It looks to me like the BorgWarner or Pierburg self operating type.
    If so, this valve operates by a build-up of pump pressure which then pushes the valve open and allows flow into the exhaust system. However, it could still be the culprit if it was gummed up for some reason. So, if you don't see a vacuum hose connected to the top of the valve, still try to be sure that the valve is not stuck.

    The OBD diagnosis process for the system is to run the pump and check for an O2 sensor signal shift to indicate that there is an increase in air content resulting in a lean condition.
    The reason the pump is operating again would only be for diagnosis purpose. After the converter heats up, which happens in 20-45 seconds, there is no need to operate the system.
    So, the following parts could be bad and set off the CEL light:
    >Bad SAIR pump
    >Bad SAIR pump relay (not likely because you hear the pump running)
    >Stuck SAIR valve
    >Disconnected or leaking hose (pump to valve)
    >Disconnected or leaking hose (vacuum switching solenoid to valve in the case of a vacuum operated valve)
    >Disconnected or leaking hose (engine intake manifold to vacuum switching solenoid in the case of a vacuum operated valve)
    >Bad solenoid (for vacuum opened valves)
    >Bad O2 sensor

    Good luck with your diagnosis.
     

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