Seeking Feedback - Plastic Surgeon Life/Career (Mech E’s Welcome)

I’m posting here, because I’m sure there are at least a handful of surgeons on this board. I’ve been preparing to get an additional degree in Mech E, when my close friend and mentor who is a cancer doctor suggested I go to med school and become a Plastic Surgeon. This isn’t the first time a doctor has recommended this path, I had another doctor friend recommend the same thing (unsolicited) during college when I worked in the ER. I’m in oil and gas now, but since I’m going to have to take roughly three years off work to go the Mech E route, I’m starting to wonder if taking the Plastic Surgeon route would be better. I’m well acquainted with the oil and gas engineering world and its lifestyle, but have less insight into the plastic surgery world and its lifestyle. I would really appreciate some feedback from your experiences if you don’t mind sharing.

Questions:

1. Do you feel satisfied with your decision to pursue this careers over the long term, or would you do things differently?
2. Do you enjoy what you do? Many engineers I’ve met that are well into their career seem to truly enjoy their work, and aren’t in a rush to fully retire.
3. Do you get a reasonable amount of time with your family? (I do field work 10 hrs days, 6 days a week, I consider that fairly reasonable; but ultimately would like to get most weekends off if workload permits)
4. Do you have any flexibility regarding time off for vacation. As in would you struggle to take 10-14 days off at a time maybe twice a year.
5. Do you have opportunities to travel internationally for work or long periods of time. For example, could you take a month off without putting your practice at risk. The international travel is a big draw to me in my current field, but if I can’t do it for work, I’m wondering if I’ll still have the time to do it for pleasure.
6. Is it reasonable to calculate that one can breach the $350k/yr in Texas cost of living dollars in exchange for more quality of life? My mentor feels I can near or breach 7 figures with the right marketing, appeal to South American clients/patients, having a private practice, but obviously continuing my workaholic lifestyle.

In all honestly, my trajectory is Engineering right now, I just know it a lot better. However, this will be my last run at school, and I want to give the MD track a fair evaluation as it also seems interesting. I’ve got a wife and little kiddo’s now, and I’m going to have to sell everything and do the college life thing again so this is it.

Some background: I’ve gone down the business school side, International Business + MBA. In the past I worked 4-5 years in an ER as patient access (during college). I’ve spent the last 11 years in oil and gas. Have done well for myself here, and know a lot about how this industry operates. I roughly know the career ladder, and know that a Mech E degree will take me to the next level (especially when paired with my MBA). This will require leaving my work for 2.5 years to fully dedicate myself to getting the degree, and obviously the MD route will take slightly longer, but at least residency is paid, and over the long run, barring reaching VP+ positions or lucking out with a successful business, it seems like there’s a lot more financial upside potential, as well as certainty, on the plastic surgery side. I have an entrepreneurial streak, and had a great learning opportunity with a small but ultimately unsuccessful business. However, I’ve hit my stride in consulting, and seems to be my sweet spot (which I think aligns fairly well with MD).

I’m grateful for any feedback you may have.

 

Thanks C50, I appreciate the honest feedback, and the message you’re conveying. It’s very helpful. As you mentioned, the “why I want to be a doctor” is very important, and something I’ll dwell on further.

In my case, I can strongly defend my desire to do engineering, less so the MD route. I just wanted to try and be objective and evaluate this option due to my concern that the reason I’m compelled to do Engineering is because it plays to what I already know and a world I’m more comfortable in.

 

Thanks for the feedback blkfxstc! Long term, my view is to get on the management side by pursuing the ME, although I'd really like to do some 28/28 drilling work for a while. That said, I'm 35 so I feel it may be a little late to go down that road and then bounce back to management; we'll see.

I've been bouncing back and forth between Austin and Houston, but once I hunker down for school, it will most likely be UofH in Houston. Unfortunately both A&M and UT would require a slightly longer commitment.

I feel C50 has helped reinforce that I'm looking at MD for all the wrong reasons, and engineering is really what interests me. The whole reason I'm doing the ME is because I want to be my best at what I do. Interestingly enough, most of the ME's I run into tell me they are very satisfied with what they do, and many aren't in a rush to retire. To me that says a lot about the field of study.

 

Thanks for sharing BMW.SauberF1Team. I spent the evening over at my mentor’s place, and oddly enough the case for MD school became much stronger under a specific set of circumstances. We spent hours having a comprehensive discussion over the two paths. While earlier today I posted that I may not be into it for the right reasons, the conversation highlighted that my strengths and goals may actually be more naturally oriented towards the MD route potentially leading to a more successful outcome and quality of life. Still more to evaluate, but the feedback I’m receiving here is very helpful. I’m glad to be having this conversation, it’s helping me see beyond the little bubble I’ve been living in during the last 6 years that I’ve been in the field.

 

Great additional info! My mentor is a radiation oncologist (graduated from John Hopkins), and was the one who suggested plastics based on everything he knows about me and our conversations. I also spent some time reading Iserson’s, as well as other information on the field and it reinforced the idea. He said the same thing about having an advantage by being a non-traditional student. Being older, non-traditional, and knowing from day one that I would go the plastic route; he feels will allow me excel in the program. I would definitely go to school in country.

It’s crazy how many misconceived notions there are about med school and the med route that were clarified to me during our talks. I was also surprised to hear how many people make the decision later in life. I’ve been gung ho about ME for a couple of years, but after deep diving with my mentor, it has now become a legitimate option. I’ve got two courses that I’ll be wrapping up in the next 6 months which will buy me some time before I will have to make a final decision on a path forward.

In the meantime, I guess I better enjoy a last couple of rides in my F430, because regardless of which career road I take, I’ll have to sell it once I get into the meat of the course work.

 

I appreciate the added thoughts IloveGT and 88Testarossa. While lately, I've been refocusing on my original ME path, I would like to play devil's advocate for a minute, particularly in response to IloveGT.

Maybe my logic is flawed, or I have a different view of the world. In my view, one derives satisfaction in doing what they are good at. If one is resolved to be the best at what they do, and they in fact find that they excel at their trade, then you would think that the person would be content (enough) with their career choice. I grew up in a world of scarcity, so unfortunately, I see the world in those terms. Work is a means to survival. To accumulate resources to sustain your loved ones through the ups and downs. The more resources, the less likely to be affected by the downs, thus fulfilling your role to society (not being a burden to the social net) and your family (provide sustenance and shelter). Loving your career, and having one that is fulfilling, to me is a bonus. Nowhere does the universe dictate that everyone gets to do what they love to survive.

I want to take this a step further though. Who would you rather treat you or a loved one? Would you rather have a doctor who performs poorly, but is motivated by his/her love of helping others, and whose goal in life was to be a doctor for the purity of the profession? Or would you rather have someone who is perhaps motivated by money to be the best at what he/she does, and is an exceptional doctor.

I'm not a fan of what I do now, or the lifestyle necessarily. However, thanks to trying to be the best at what I do (and basically working my tail off) I've been able to make enough to genuinely consider rerouting my career while sustaining my family of four through the downtime.

88Testarossa, I think following your passion is great, it works for some. However, I think the number of people it works for, is far less than the number it doesn't work for. I tried the passion route once, and it cost me a lot of money, and helped me realize passion won't pay the bills. Not saying I wouldn't try again, just way more cautious. Also, making your passion your work, could turn your passion into a nightmare. That said, that's a heck of a path you took. Sounds like a good life so far! I can only hope that some day I end up in a similar situation as yours.

The good news is that I think that the ME/MET route will have a better chance of that since I'm looking for something that will allow me to make business decisions, lead/mentor people/teams, work around the world, not be confined to an office, and provide some semblance of autonomy. Which to me is some sort of engineering/consulting mix. I wish I'd been more adamant about this before spending time and money getting my MBA, since the value/knowledge obtained by an engineering degree would have been better.

 

Jaguar36, it's more of a lateral move, then up, but agree with the potential of a temporary step back. I've also got a PMP certification, but cannot move into project management without an engineering degree at this company or without at minimum a BS of some sorts at different companies. The Shell/Exxon/BP/Bechtel/Wood's all now require engineering degrees for a role that I've been doing for 10 years without. Even then, project controls isn't always needed, only certain projects. In oil and gas, at least in my experience, the engineering side make all of the business decisions, and get to run projects. They get to run projects all over the world; Africa, SE Asia, war zones, Europe, etc.. It's interesting, it's adventurous, and even at a technician level it pays well. I worked overseas for a while, and I miss the work. I'm trying to work my way back into it, but in a more interesting role with better upward mobility, and the engineering degree seems to be the ticket. Then when I'm done moving around, I'd like to at least have a shot at VP level. The other option is expanding my business, but I'd need to find another way (outside project controls) and would have to build a workable plan and raise capital to scale properly. I considered going to the Oil and Gas convention in Algeria this November just to see what's going over there (I worked there in the past), maybe just putting myself out there will get something interesting will pop up. The only other roles I can think of that may do this type of work are maybe top IB and Consulting (McKinsey, Bain & Co.) firms which mostly require an Ivy League education to get into.

ryalex, the book recommendation looks like a good read! I agree with most of your sentiments. The plastic surgery option was under a very specific and well defined plan that my mentor had suggested. While the trade off was 10 years, I would be able to recoup the cost and some in the following 10 years, barring a major unforeseen circumstance (20 year overall plan). This would have exceeded my "dream" income goals, and basically guaranteed a minimal income for the duration of my working life. As some of you have noted though, this path is more motivated by income and the fact that the byproduct of my motivation would be helping people, whereas engineering would be something I find more interesting, but does not come with the guarantees. Furthermore, as you stated, engineering would enhance my skill set and be useful to own my own company; which is something I've already started. I'm a sole proprietor (S-Corp) operating as a consultant for my client of a few years. My problem is, they only operate domestically (in a limited region), and the company is too small (mid-size) to move up the ranks; if I was to join them in exchange for what would amount to a major a pay cut. Engineering could expand my potential, and get me into the client side majors with a global infrastructure. To work for another company in engineering related B2B sales, once again I'd need the ME.

 

IloveGT I think you may be misjudging my tone and intentions here. Still, I appreciate your input. I am by no means belittling, trivializing or underestimating the process and skill required to be a doctor much less a surgeon. I’d also like to add that I did not ask the internet as to whether I should be a doctor, I had specific questions pertaining to the lifestyle. Furthermore, I already have an income similar to that of a family practice doctor, so this isn’t a question about what will make me rich quick. I have not been around plastic surgeons, but I’ve worked closely with ER doctors (for over four years) and my close friend and mentor is a cancer doctor who recommended this path for me based on what he knows about me. He defined the path with a plan. He already mentored a family member of his who with his mentorship got into a top medical school, and that person is well on his way to becoming a plastic surgeon. That person is good, but I wouldn’t call him exceptional. He is not the only one who mentioned it to me, it had been recommended to me in the past when I worked in the ER department with the other doctors during undergrad (for 5 years); because of how hard I work, and due to my bedside manner. Would the journey be difficult? Yes. Are the chances slim? Yes. That said, it is not impossible. I had some questions I needed answers to in order to get the better picture. I am no stranger to hard work and brutal hours, so my concern is not about the work to get there. It was about what the other side looked like, to see if it was worth nearly killing myself to get there (I am very dedicated to my work), and putting my family through the stress of a rigorous program. That said, there are poor doctors, maybe not many poor surgeons because of the additional rigors and selectivity, but there’s a totem pole in every industry, and there’s always some at the bottom that make you wonder how they got there or found the shortcuts.

88Testarossa, thanks for the tips and the encouragement, it’s well received. My comments above present the issue. I work closely with engineers, but I do not have an engineering undergrad. However, I’ve oft considered the idea of switching industries to one that is less insistent on an engineering degree to check the HR box. I have about two more years on my current plan before I make my final decision. I’m in a holding pattern now, and taking evening classes to maintain forward momentum until the next two years are up. At that point I’ll have to decide whether to go all in ME, (MD IF still considering), or industry change; assuming no pleasant surprises in my current trajectory.

 

IloveGT, I realize we’re at an impasse. But there’s one thing I really need to convey here before I drop this, and that is that I’m not here asking how rich can I get off being a surgeon. I get the impression that you think I have some kind of idealist view about all of this, or I’m one of the many people with rose colored glasses out there.

Please see my original post. Number 6 was the only one that discussed income, and I can see that I was not clear enough with the question. The reason I asked that, was because I was considering whether I would realistically have the ability to throttle back the number of patients/cases I would handle if I ever needed extra personal time. One of the allure’s to Plastic Surgery is that it’s more autonomous. As medicine gets corporatized, doctors become employees of large hospital networks, and government increasingly threatens the socialization of medicine, Plastic Surgery appears to have the most stable outlook, and has a higher reported level of satisfaction by medical practitioners. Therefore, the assumption is that if you practice in a field that offers this higher level of autonomy compared to others, one would have the ability decide the number of cases to take. This autonomy becomes increasingly important as one ages. The others were realistic questions about family time. Another about travel. I’m told it’s hard to get away, yet read a case about a surgeon having time to do things like Doctors Without Borders. I wanted to see what others here experienced. I don’t really have hobbies, I just work, but the only thing I truly enjoy is international travel and exposure to other cultures throughout the world. The few times I have time off, I usually head overseas somewhere (usually twice a year). I was wondering if I would have to give that up. Quite frankly your last paragraph came off as a little patronizing with the comment about asking “Ferrari owners” and how good you have it. I don’t understand the need to bring up Ferrari owning doctors, it has nothing to do with the conversation. I have a Ferrari already, it’s not about that. I could have a bigger house, but I don’t need that. I live well within my means. It’s not about rich and famous here. I am seeking first hand experiences, and life specifically as a plastic surgeon (not family practice, internal medicine, researcher, ER docs, etc.). This is not fantasizing, it is planning and gathering information to make an informed decision.

On another note, you emphasize the admissions interview. I’m not going in there telling them I’m in it for the money. There are many different ways I could convey my passion for becoming a doctor and create a unique story to set me apart from the other applicants.

Look I get that it’s hard for us to understand each other in a forum, and honestly you’ve already pegged me for whatever you think I am so that’s that. Maybe some day we’ll bump into each other and we can reset this impression. I was careless about my approach into the topic because I had certain questions on my mind, and I didn’t think they would strike a cord. I should have begun by expressing my passion for the role and then moved into my questions; and maybe this was probably a bad place to ask the question in the first place. I just assumed as a fellow Tifosi I would get a more personal response, from a more reputable person, than a random screen name posting it on some generic xyz forum. I get it though, with the gazillion posts of people asking “how much do Doctors make”, it’s easy to assume that my post was just another one of them.

By the way, I can appreciate your comment about sacrificing and serving others, as well as work not being measured in absolute terms. It’s a great way of explaining things, and it stood out. If it gives you any peace of mind, I live by the philosophy of servant leadership, and have done so since before I knew what that meant; probably why my bedside manner stood out to the other doctors.

Steinhart, your comment was not constructive. I’d hope there was a little more respect among us when having a serious discussion.

Alcav5 thanks for sharing your thoughts. Also a good potential option.