Seized exhaust cam | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Seized exhaust cam

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Sledge4.2, Dec 20, 2008.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull
    I agree ... I ran and worked in "job shops" ... I now only build prototypes to 5 pieces that I have to make fixtures and tooling for. I only tried doing job shop work for a couple years and didn't want to invest in a CMM or high end CNC 'cause of the payment. I bought a few used CNC's 'cause a lot of the machines I build have servo controls so I can fix them myself. I always have a position for a qualified employee but I can't compete with the large company benefits so I get 3rd, 4th string ... I'm hiring FYI :). I learned to run all my machines 'cause I had to ... I took (past tense 'cause I try not to be so intense) delivery dates seriously. Before I started my biz I was running a 55 man job shop and was programming the f'g machine at 4:00 a.m. to meet some stupid delivery date ... the milling supervisor didn't give a **** and neither did any of the other employees ... that was 1994'sh ... now the guy's one of the biggest shops in the area and there for me with all his horizontal tombstone yada yadas if I need him :).

    I was half ranting about the quality of "machinists" these days 'cause I get tired of doing everything and I wish I had the hrs in the day to do what Dave does ... I guess I'm jealous???

    Cheers
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,399
    socal
    I see tools like that and I start thinking like my wife. It looks like a 50 carat diamond ring. I'd sure like to learn how to use it. But... I did get to touch it. I'd like to go visit enginefxr and procoach one day too. I bet their shops are like Dave's..."amusement parks for gearheads."
     
  3. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms

    Now that we can all agree on!

    I suggest we all start to plan ahead. Team Weasel (or Twinkles, Ian's on a roll again..) @ Road America this coming summer could be the biggest happening this decade.

    Ian and Gary could drag some water logged red sled up behind a Plymouth, Bruce brings a snorkled Spider with a mobile still, FFB brings a plastic and plywood car with a horse badge on the front, Llenroc and myself the gray haired contingent from the mountains trailering in to save the kidneys to work yet another day and Peter as the team coach trying to hold the ragtag mob together. Not the type of group the promoters would welcome to Pebble but up on the Norwegian Rivera of Wisconsin we could blend right in.

    Now, if this thread hasn't gone off topic enough, this should finish it! Hell, I have now lived long enough to put my THIRD team sticker on the Seibkens bar wall while still walking upright, I have to go back to the home track.

    Time to close this thread on a positive note (If such a thing as Team Weasel could be considered positive, parents lock up your children) and assure the OP that everything will be fine. Anything can be fixed, yours will be easy. Now, about the RA thing...?
     
  4. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
    1,753
    S&R Exotics
    Full Name:
    Gary Sharpe
    Count me in!!!
    I don't know what the Seibkens bar is, but I'm willing to find out! First round's on me!
    Everybody in the group like Leinenkugels?
     
  5. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Seibkins and the Seneca Lodge ARE the epitime of old school race bars, a lot of skeletons in those places.......and I'm not telling my stories.....

    gary, you open next week, got those heads to bring out, talking of bad cam journals......
     
  6. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    #56 brian.s, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    #57 davehelms, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
     
  8. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,468
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Hmmm, I've only been able to apply ONE sticker at Seibkens (while upright)! :D

    Sounds like a plan, Big D. :)
     
  9. desire308

    desire308 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2007
    1,433
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Peter W
     
  10. jratcliff

    jratcliff Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2004
    1,024
    Texas
    Sounds like we have been on similar paths. Yep, I invested heavily into CNC (15), CMM's (2), EDM's, and other specialty machines. The machines are great and the machinists or a constant trial. Quality is a hard thing to train, you either have the desire or you don't.

    The one thing that bothers me about this whole thread is the insistence of him saying he had the cap on right when it's obvious by the marks that it wasn't. Your work is your business card and we all from time to time make a mistake. Own up to it and fix it. I believe it shows who your dealing with. The first thing I tell anyone who works for me is "the customer should never see a mistake, because it should never go out the door". The only time a customer knows we had to replace something is if it impacts delivery.

    John
     
  11. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,468
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter Krause
    Right next to Carl Haas and his stogie...
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,399
    socal
    I'm in...kitchen passes are easy to come by after 20+ years of marriage...lack of my presence = marital bliss.

    Funny you should mention the plastic and plywood car. Living by the beach we get all kinds of crazies. I saw this really cool mahogany bicycle with wooden spokes. I want one of those.

    I'm saving up beer money now.
     
  13. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
    1,753
    S&R Exotics
    Full Name:
    Gary Sharpe
    Is the flashlight club close to those bars? never been there either, but heard alot about it! :D

    Brian...yes, I'll be open next week...and this thread hasn't seen really bad cam journals yet, has it?

    As far as the bike, I think the Weasel would rather have a jet powered bike, he's not into the "piston pounders" anymore! :)
     
  14. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2007
    1,016
    northeast
    Full Name:
    Gone
    Yes he's right Brian.

    Our theory is pistons are for cars and props are for boats.


    Cool as hell picture though...That was quite an accomplishment...




    I may want that 6cylinder you've got! Gary will fill you in!



    Team Weasel--Sounds great!!!!!
     
  15. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
    4,789
    Marin
    Full Name:
    Geno
    #65 Sledge4.2, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
    4,789
    Marin
    Full Name:
    Geno
    I pickup up the car today, wound up pay cost for parts, and paying for 1/2 of his hours. The car runs amazing, but it is idling a little on the high slide (1300-1500) after fully warmed up. I can easily take it back out to have him look at it, but if i wanted to take a crack at this myself where would i start? Thanks in advance for all the help on this issue guys. 79 308 GTS, carbs.
    Geno
     
  17. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms

    Thats a bitter pill to pay anything but I understand, we all have to pick our battles these days.

    First thing is to drag the clutch when at idle and then push it back in and see if the idle stays low. This would tell you if the dist. advance was sticking. Carb cars are difficult to guess at as the possibilties are:
    sticking advance, retard points sw. inop, improper timing, hung up throttle cable, ball joint at the end of the cable too tight, wrong setting on high idle cam, and all of the same issues relating to the carb linkage as a whole, improper sinc or balance..... far too many variables here.

    You paid WAY more than what is fair, call and set up a time and return the car to the shop for it to be properly diagnosised and repaired while you wait. You do not want to open up what they just closed.....no good can come of that! Considering all the facts here I would be concerned of warranty issues if you do open it yourself.
     
  18. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
    4,789
    Marin
    Full Name:
    Geno
    I know I paid way more than I needed to, I didnt really need to pay anything. There was a 'human factor' in the equation here that i can't explain in a public forum

    anyway, god knows i have wasted plenty of money on other crap in my life that was far less worthwhile than this

    I am now figuring out a way to make a tax deduction of some kind.... could it be "goodwill" or "impairment"? Maybe I will post this to the tax advice board.
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,399
    socal
    Good Man...the obvious solution is not always the best one. Glad to hear you are up and running again. I have never made that mistake of doing a cap on backwards. I did not know such damage could potentially occur. I have always just been careful to put things back the way I took them off.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,335
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    It happens and as I understand it the caps are not all the originals and not properly marked so to a small degree I have to excuse him. It is however something that experience DOES teach you to look out for at the time of disassembly. It is not unlike learning to walk. A baby does not always look at where they are stepping, we expect adults to do so. I expect a professional mechanic, even one without a great deal of experience to pay attention when disassembling things to be aware of problems. That is the point at which problems are supposed to be discovered, not when reassembling or worse yet when the key is turned.
     
  21. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2007
    4,789
    Marin
    Full Name:
    Geno
    Brian, I agree with your points. I guess my view is that mistakes happen - I have made a few professionally in my life. Even though I think I consider myself one of the best in the world at what I do, I have made mistakes. I hate to admit it, but its true. Not being a mechanic, I dont konw whether this mistake (if it was a mistake) should have never ever happened at all, but it sounds like you think there is little excuse. The guy was willing to pony up and "take it in the shorts" as he put it, i just didnt want to see that happen. I am a sucker like that :)

    Anyway, like I said, the money spent was better than other things i have pissed it away on in the past and present (ie, my wife's senseless shoe collection, her seaweed wraps and crap like that, although she looks great so i should probably just shutup).

    You guys have all been a ton of help, thanks for the thoughts.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,335
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    We all make mistakes, the difference is how they get handled. I have been shop foreman in big shops and now own my own and understand putting out fires and damage control quite well and that is why I would not crucify this guy for the mistake. I just think it could have been handled better on his part. I also understand your side and why you did things the way you did. Life is too short to fight every fight.
     
  23. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    My sincere compliments to you.
     
  24. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    With all honesty, there are lawnmower mechanics more careful than this. Working on a Ferrari should be where you aspire to end up, not where you start out. Keeping parts orientated properly during removal, WITHOUT any regard to markings, is basic auto mechanics. You never trust marks until you can verify they are 100% correct. You ALWAYS reassemble things the way they came apart unless you see damage that needs correction.

    Tossing parts aside haphazardly and assuming all markings are correct is sloppy and careless. I would rather have a dirty shop and old tools and know what the hell I am doing, regardless of any title, than a big shiny new tool box in a spotless shop and be a hack. I want my shop spotless, and I really want a nice big shiney new tool box, I just dont want to ever be a hack.

    I am really beginning to wonder what one has to achieve in life to call oneself a "Ferrari tech". What are the credentials one needs? Would that be piston welding (while assembled in the engine), valve timing with crayons, backwards parts assembly that causes rapid engine failure, or mismatching reciprocating parts (rods) from other engines to achieve in excess of 20 grams imbalance? Maybe you get extra points if you can shove a big bill across the table for all the parts you didnt install, and even better if you can blame a big F up that increases the bill onto someone else. "I didnt do it" must be the catchall phrase in this industry. Serioulsy, this kind of stuff gives all competent mechanics a bad name. I dont have nearly the problem with the man making a mistake as much as I do seeing him shirk responsibility and then charge to fix it. Pretty sad.
     
    tamburini44 likes this.
  25. Stew

    Stew Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2006
    547
    Los Angeles



    I guess not paying enough attention in your "Humility 101" class might have been a mistake ;)


    Regards,

    Stew
     

Share This Page