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seller versus buyer

Discussion in '348/355' started by joao, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. joao

    joao Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    130
    Trying to be respectfull to all buyers...
    I have a 98 355 gts for sale with 16k. It seems people think that the car is not worth what I'm asking for. (69k with the 25k service performed). I understand...times are on the buyer side...but then I put myself in their shoes and try to buy a similar car for less than 60k. That is the number I set as a limit for my search. Called a lot of dealers, surfed the net, asked the dealers if they know someone that may have one for sale...blah blah...it seems nobody wants to sell me one for 60k...find some cars with lots of miles and shady pasts wich I would not buy, but no one with a nice car for that price.
    In my case it seems a few guys think that 50k is what my cars is worth...surfed the net again, could not find one for that price...maybe I'm in lala land and they are right...the thing is not worth s***t. If that is the case I will just keep it, but it shows that F cars are no longer that desirable, and with production numbers going up on all new models they will be worth even less in the futur... Not upset at anyone or anything, life goes on...but none the less interesting.
     
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  3. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2007
    3,493
    rock bottom
    So your 355 is better than the lower priced examples on eBay? Congratulations.

    If you require a certain price, then by all means wait it out. Your buyer is out there.
     
  4. joao

    joao Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    130
    The lowest one on Ebay is a 1995 gtb with 26k, so how much more is mine worth...car is on FerrariAds if you need to see the pics...maybe not much more...
     
  5. hacker-pschorr

    hacker-pschorr Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 27, 2006
    582
    Land of Lambeau
    #4 hacker-pschorr, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
    FWIW the cheapest 355 on the duPont Registry is $44k (26k miles) the next cheapest is $60k. 38 listed with a price, with an average of $77.5k

    Cars.com - 83 listed with asking prices with an average of $72k (I left out the one selling for $27k....) 10 are under $59k

    Autotrader - 65 listed with an asking price - average $69k - highest $99k - lowest $45k

    It looks like you are smack dab in the middle. Good place to be unless you have to sell it tomorrow to feed your family ;)
     
  6. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    There are obviously lots of variables that affect value vs cost. There are those buyers who just want to get in at any low price with no clue as to what it will cost them to get it 'sorted'. Then there are those who understand the value of a 'sorted' car and willing to pay for it. Then finally the guy who is looking for a 'sorted' car from the distressed owner ....... ;).
     
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  8. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2008
    4,357
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    #6 DonJuan348, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
    these are "distressed times" so they are lots of "distressed" buyer but not enough "distressed" sellers to go around ...

    your car sounds like a sorted car which many should want but the "the times" wont have it...right now for what you are asking one could buy a 360, so why buy yours

    if you think as a potential buyer, you will realize now is not the time to sell

    what goes into a 25k service...? that is something u do if u planned to keep it not sell it, near impossible to recoup that cost
     
  9. joao

    joao Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    130
    Thanks, you are all correct...maybe not the right time.
     
  10. jm348

    jm348 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 21, 2007
    2,602
    Redondo Beach, CA
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    Jeff M
    Strange times right now

    Your 401K worth about 30% less

    Your house worth about 25% less

    Exotic cars worth......who knows....:eek:

    Your car is worth more to keep right now...a fair deal for someone would be around 60K...:eek:

    We are all in the same boat, if I sell my 355 and "lose" I can just make it up on the other end when I buy a 360...:D

    If you need to sell I would do it now as it will only be worth less later.
     
  11. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
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    Aug 5, 2008
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    if you dont need to sell... then try and wait it out...

    everyone(including me) , knows prices down, times are hard, so why pay more when u can wait on a good car from a desperate owner ...and each time ones sells for cheap it makes your car worth less

    MAN, i cant get over that service bill, u could have parked your car and bought a GT4 or Mondi for that price...
     
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  13. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2007
    1,016
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    Gone


    I for one am TIRED of a few things and I'm gonna voice it! Number one, I'm tired of our Pres. getting on all the channels and letting everyone know how BAD things are all the while flying the 747 all over the place to sign another pork barrell package (anyone really know what that 747 costs to run? I do! It's an F430 basically just to get to Phoenix!), same with the media they need to shut it too.
    I go to a restaraunt on Saturday night and wait an hour to sit down, I've been on 4 airline flights this month and they are all full. I know it's bad but I'm not sure it's the apocolypse yet! JEESH

    Sure I understand times are bad (more accurate word is "we are back to reality" ) and the long and short of it is this...People whom *thought* they were rich actually were not! They never could afford a Ferrari, big a$$ house, or many other "American Dream BS" IMO the fact is that no statement could be more truthful...They were *dreaming* when they bought this stuff and many were credit rich/cash poor.....Shut off the credit and bingo, the real story comes to life!


    If your car is a beauty, hold out........We will certainly see hyper-inflation in the very near future, if nothing else it will fetch more dollars, in a fake sort of way.

    There are lots of bottom feeders, don't give in...Feed-em fish and tell them to find another sucker...KEEP IT!



    Sorry I will get off my soap box now:)

    Have a nice day, I'm fixing mine (355) up for what it's worth...Just in time for the depression.......
     
  14. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2007
    3,493
    rock bottom
    AMEN BROTHER!!!
     
  15. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2007
    1,675
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    Steve
    You nailed it! I couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  16. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
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    #13 MBFerrari, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
    Desorno you are dead wrong with this statement, "...and each time ones sells for cheap it makes your car worth less."

    Everytime someone sells one for less, someone just bought a car that is likely a P of **** and they will find out shortly just how much it costs to "put a Ferrari right" as our British friends would say.

    I am speaking with you and two other potential buyers right now, and what buyers in general don't seem to understand, is that these cars are NOT cheap to fix or to get in working order. True those who are mechanics can do it for cheaper than someone like myself, but just because some knucklehead is selling a yellow 348 in Alexandria here for 28k doesn't make my car worth a dime less than it was when I bought it...take a look at the list that Junglistluder put up for what is wrong with that car:
    Here is just the major stuff...from Junglistluder:

    Was a dedicated track car
    Needs Major Service and more (does not run right at all)
    Clutch is bad
    Both doors have cracks around the strakes
    Leaky aftermarket fuel cell (strong gas smell in cabin)
    No factory gas tank (so gas gauge does not work)
    Eratic gauges
    Slow Down lights
    Electical issues (random stalling, climate control, windows, lighting, etc.)
    Broken pass. side mirror housing
    Bent wheel
    Ebrake does not work (at all)
    Cracked Exhaust
    Broken interior door panel and missing trim
    Had an aftermarket roll cage (that was removed sloppily)
    Steering wheel is wayyyy crooked (i think it's alignment related because the turn signal is messed up too)
    Brakes are shot
    Aftermarket stereo does not work properly
    and many other things that I don't remember right now

    The guys at LandRover of Alexandria may sell this car for $25, but that has absolutely NO effect on my car. You might argue it does from a free market perspective, but (all joking aside that our current administration no longer wants the economy to work itself out) that anyone who buys a Ferrari for $25k is in for an interesting ride to say the least.

    Two other cars that were just purchased at "low" price-points by Fchatters have been "re"listed for sale within 10 days because it is probably now really dawning on them how much it will cost to fix these cars...I truly don't mean to sound arrogant, but shopping for a Ferrari in the discount aisle is NOT a good idea. If you want to play in this league of exotics, there are no cheap cars, there just aren't.

    Just my .02
     
  17. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
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    Aug 5, 2008
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    #14 DonJuan348, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
    I beg to differ with you...it makes your car worth less BECAUSE now people THINK you can buy these car for less, reality they are over looking that fact that they may have to spend a small mint to get it RIGHT...

    All they are looking at is the purchase price which is a small portion of the equation ...this is what I realize now(and I didnt come to this realization easily)

    so either way you are spending the money. it just a matter of when...upfront or on the back end...

    if yolu want to do it on the back end FINE! just know that going in...


    the best thing I did is wait and talk to people such as you...and others. Bullfighter told me but I was determined to prove him wrong thinking he was on the "anal" side.

    WRONG!

    my $.02

    thanks to

    MBFERRARI
    Bullfighter
    JF308
    SNJ5
    Almost Retired
    and many others
     
  18. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,309
    VA
    I will be honest with you looking at the ad. I bought my '98 GTS F1 last summer. Price is difficult to determine because it was a trade + cash, but I would say $75k. My car has a few options that yours does not, including F40 brakes and F1 gearbox. If I were to trade my car in right now, 50k would be what I would get in trade. I would not expect to get more than $60k right now private sale. I think that is reflective of the drop in market. It's not bad when you consider that 360s were $125k and are $90k now. If you are trading up, the change is going to be in your favor. If you are selling for cash, it is essentially a fire sale, and you are going to take a hit. A lot of people are looking to steal a car from someone desperate, so I think you are going to get more low-ball offers now.

    I have followed the CS market closely (before I got my Capristo). You will hear the owners talk about how great a car it is, it is a valuable collector, preferred over the 430 and even the Scud. But there are several no-stories low mileage cars being offered - and sitting unsold - at dealers in the 150s, where the same cars were 200k 6 months ago. It doesn't much matter how well people like the car, the number of people buying is simply greatly reduced.

    It does look like a clean car. I agree with most here that say if you can, hold on to it. Good luck either way.
     
  19. joao

    joao Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    130
    Thanks, will probably take the car of the market this week...because at 60k, I'm better off keeping it...who knows one of my kids will be driving in 2 years...they may go for the price of a Toyota by then.
     
  20. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
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    #17 MBFerrari, Feb 23, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
    LOL, but just because SOME people THINK the Ferrari brand or a certain model is worth less, that only means they are worth less in thier minds pnly...people in the know about Ferraris know it is better to find a model like mine to begin with, so just because some bottom feeders are thinking they can get a 348 for $30k, so what? Even if they can it's a POS, so it ultimately doesn't affect the value of my car at all, because the intelligent people buying a Ferrari know that they can't get a 348 of extremely high quality 348 like mine for that price - regardless of the general "market".

    For example, the Fchatter in MN who has his well sorted out 348 for sale on here for $41k - do you think he is going to all of a sudden say, well, the market doesn't think my car is worth more than 33, so I will sell it for that tomorrow? No freaking way. He won't do it. That is why I always chuckle when people are getting pissed off that when they offer (for example) this guy in MN 30k, and he tells them to go jump off a bridge, they get upset. Why? His car is worth more than that REGARDLESS of what the market thinks.

    We are having a philisophical difference here and I have no ill feelings by the way, just like discussing the topic. Again, once you buy yours you will "get it". Just because some knucklehead may want to offer me $40k for my Serie' Speciale, I wouldn't never take that little for it. It is worth more than that and I know it because I looked at about 30 hunks of **** 348's out there before I purchased mine. So I KNOW mine is worth more, and that is separate from what the "market" may think...it just takes some patience to find an intelligent buyer to come and get it. (By the way, mine isn't for sale :D)

    Not saying you can't find deals out there, or that this isn't a great time to buy a Ferrari, it is. Just that many of us that have one and would like another (and who are happy with our current car) are being extremely cautious and selective because we know what it takes to get and or keep a ferrari at top level. In summary, you stated correctly that you will pay now or pay later, so I don't care that some in the market all of a sudden think they can get a 348 for 30k. They are bottom feeders anyway, and I don't want to sell my car to someone who is going to trash it. I work hard to keep it operating and looking excellent.

    MB

     
  21. SpecialK43

    SpecialK43 Karting

    Oct 12, 2007
    198
    Kzoo, MI
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    K Russell
    It seems many forget the only truth in a market, "It is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it."
     
  22. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
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    Matt B
    BUT THAT IS MY POINT!!! In general terms that is correct, but when dealing with exotic cars that is only "partially" true...as someone in another thread asked long ago, is the VALUE of an F40 worth less right now because the market is down? Certainly it is to people who are now potential buyers, but the people who own these cars know that the true value is based in love and passion and effort put into these cars as well, which again is why so many sellers are getting pissed off at buyers lowballing them right now because they know the cars are worth more than the low offers.

    Then the potential buyers are getting pissed off that the sellers are sh!tting on thier heads. Really???? No kidding. Someone who works on thier car all the time trying to keep it in outstanding condition, dumping tons of money and time and love into a car isn't going to sell it for $10k because that is what the "market value" is for it. It is a FERRARI for God's sake, not a freaking mini van.

    Too hard to accurately describe what I am trying to communicate here. Would need three pages.

    MB
     
  23. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,309
    VA
    You got it Matt. The good cars that are in good hands with people (including joao) are going to keep the prices solid in the future. Because I simply wont sell my car for what it is "worth". Which means at some point, when the dust settles, the good 355s are still going to command decent money.

    And I think the 355 is nearing a bit of a turning point. Even over the last few years, the image of an almost car that lived above the 348 (sorry) but below the "better" 360 has changed. I think it is developing its own identity separate from the newer cars and with some traits that make it more desirable. To many the styling is preferred. The sound is unique and unmistakable. It is a smaller, more intimate car than the later models. If you are a big person, you may not fit as well. But if you do, that snug fit is like a great shoe.
     
  24. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
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    .............. that is half the equation ............. the other half is ........... "what someone is willing to sell it for" ................ ;)
     
  25. traimpz348

    traimpz348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Matthew
    I get what Matt is saying, but I think people with cars in Matt's condition aren't going to sell it right now - so you're not going to see high prices. What sucks for owners is that people are selling Ferrari's for way less money. Kind of like living in a good area, but some idiots get foreclosed on... which ultimately makes your house "worth" less... but that's the reality - people aren't shelling out good money for good cars or bad, just like houses. If you don't HAVE to sell or if you're not moving up in a models - don't.
     
  26. dlynes

    dlynes Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2004
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    Dave
    please post pictures and reference to listing
     
  27. dlynes

    dlynes Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2004
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    checked out your posting, car looks great! Id love to save pictures of it but it would not allow me to. Also noticed the bella stable car was in, if that's your garage and you do not mind, I would love to see more pictures of it. Looked awesome.

    thanks!

    ps- I would never sell that care unless you absoluately had too or can not give the car enough attention and drive it needs
     
  28. thurston howell III

    Jan 10, 2009
    77
    the only way there going to get 25k for this car is , if there's a suitcase with 20k in the trunk !!! (the boot for the brits)
     

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