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Serious Problem, need advise

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Godfather, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. Godfather

    Godfather Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2002
    487
    Fiorano
    Hello Fellow Ferrarsti,

    My car has been in a local shop getting some work done. I was just made aware that my car has been driven without my consent and also taken to a street racing event where the shop owner raced my car. Its my understanding that there is video of this. I want to know what my legal options are.

    Thanks
     
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  3. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,938
    USA
    WHOA! Someone on the board had a valet drive his car, so he will have some pertinent advice.

    Other than that, maybe try to get a hold of the video as evidence. My guess is that there has got to be some sort of legal code of commercial conduct which dictates that they can't do that sort of thing because it is beyond the scope of what you hired them to do, and what you reasonably expected their temporary possession of the car to entail.
     
  4. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 14, 2003
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    Im sorry but YOU are the Godfather and you need to ask what to do about a worm like that? Sounds like he needs a "Walk behind the woodshed!"

    Seriously, if there is a video...you can sue them. Perhaps the tape can be used as evidence against them for various motor vehicle violations as well.

    DL
     
  5. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    16,140
    Savannah
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    I NEED A JOB
    it would usually help if you had a profile to help you, but in this case i suppose its best to remain unknown until "ya do what ya gotta do" .... i hope you end up owning that shop, the tools and the mechanics F@#$%%^& house. to take someones " everyday " car and drive it is bad enough, to take it to a street race is worse, TO DO THIS TO A FERRARI AS THE OWNER OF THE SHOP....never mind, wont type that part. lurk, beg, search and find your car , with him at the wheel and your car in this alledged video with tags ect and him visible and sue for damage to property, deprication, loss of use, legal fees PAIN AND SUFFERING , ect. i think MR WHART is an attorney, perhaps someone on the board can help you better than I, but you need to get the evidence of the video ASAP for the legal case. that way you can show him , your ferrari and the abuse . then abuse him in court to the fullest extent of the law. then pay some HOODS to do the rest...........sorry to read of your misfortune, when possible, kindly let the rest of us know who and where he is by name and business. these jerks give the rest of the honest mechanics and shops a bad name!. best , michael
     
  6. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
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    geeze you guys posted all that while i was typing.... wow. had zero responses when i saw it!! wow
     
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  8. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
    2,721
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    Michael.C.James
    I'd file charges against the shop for car theft, then talk to an attorney about lawsuit proceedings......
     
  9. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    Jeez what a violation. It's probably not his first time doing something like this. Nail the bas_ard!
     
  10. JeffB

    JeffB Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2004
    1,121
    Northville, Michigan
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    Jeff B
    Sorry to hear this happened to you Godfather. Do you mind if I ask what kind of car you have? Also, not sure if you want to answer this, especially on a public board, but I'm curious about what kind of shop it was (i.e. collision, factory authorized dealership, etc...?)
     
  11. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,551
    Italy/India
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    On a different thread I stated that I do not even allow my mechanic do drive my car without me being there...
    Now you see why. Something similar happened to me ages ago, but as italian law is absurd on this subject (as on many others) the all issue ended with me just not paying the service bill and changing shop.
    Legal action would have taken years (litterally) without any guarantee of positive results.
    If in the US you can do something.... go4it. You have (for what is worth) all my moral support.

    Ciao

    Eugenio
     
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  13. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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  14. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    I think doing things the legal way may give you no personal satisfaction, would having the said Mo FOs legs smashed and bolloxs removed be a touch much.........though it works for me. Oh yea before any one starts flameing me for talkin violence,sometimes there is an itch in all of us that need to be scratched.
     
  15. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
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    Frank Lipinski
    Whart and Frank Parker are attorneys. I can't tell from your profile what state you are in, but purhaps they could give you a lead. If you have a video then it is a slam dunk. After the matter is resolved, I think you should post the name of the company on this site.
     
  16. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    36,036
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    Dave
    Without the video or a witness, it's all your information, unsubstantiated, versus his reputation.

    I assume you've already picked up your car and paid the guy? If not, 1st thing to do is get your car out of his shop, even if you have to take a flatbed truck and a bunch of your buddies to do it.

    If you can get a copy of the video, that'll help, however, without the name and testimony of the person who shot the video, or unless the driver is clearly visible, you're still going to have a hard time with it as evidence in a criminal action.

    What? you don't have a single local police friend? "Godfather"? You gotta have some friends somewhere. Talk to the police, explain what you know, and heard, and see what they say. Nothing like the threat of criminal action to bring a slime ball car guy to his knees.

    I'd say at the very least you have car theft, maybe criminal trespass, destruction of property, there may even be some fraud issue, and all of the associated traffic laws he broke while driving your car.

    Hopefully he didn't do any damage to the car itself, but if he did, you pile that on too.
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Sounds to me like a classic case of conversion of chattel. If you find the video you can sue the owner of the shop for an engine/trans rebuild bcus those are not cheap & god knows what happened in there.

    Whats the name of the shop ?
     
  18. FL 355

    FL 355 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2002
    1,665
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    Frank Lipinski
    Sounds to me like a classic case of conversion of chattel

    Williami - Illegal use of personal property?
     
  19. Godfather

    Godfather Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2002
    487
    Fiorano
    Thanks for all the feedback so far. All of what happened was brought to my attention yesterday(Saturday night). The car is still at the shop and it will be picked up first thing Monday. Once I decide how I will proceed I will disclose more information. Still working on trying to find the video. At least I do have more than 3 or 4 witnesses that can verify my car was taken and street raced.
     
  20. 575Mike

    575Mike Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,698
    Midwest
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    Michael
    Hi, I don't admit it to it too much, but I am an attorney I would be happy free of charge to lead you in the right direction as far as your legal rights are concerned. As a former prosecutor I would love to have a video of the event. That's not called evidence, it's called proof. You also have civil remedies.
    Please e mail me and I'll give you by direct dial at the office. Good luck regardless! Go get 'em!
     
  21. GTB4NART

    GTB4NART Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2004
    421
    It really all boils down to damages or if you want him criminally penalized. From a civil perspective, no damages equals no collection. Technically, he was the custodian of the vehicle and only had a right to use it in the regular course of duty typically required to repair a similar vehicle with a similar problem - does that include high performance test drives of high performance vehicles? I recall a similar case where a Brinks driver strayed from his common route to get a cheeseburger, the company called this "conversion" but the court ruled that since he did this a few times before without incident that it was reasonably acceptable within his normal scope of duty. IMHO, it's not worth pursuing unless there are real damages. (I did represent my boss as a witness in small claims court where a mechanic drove his Jaguar over 1000 miles in a weekend - my boss only realized this after getting a traffic ticket mailed to him which was written the same weekend the Jag was at the mechanic's). Damages were $2000 - $2 per mile, a somewhat arbitrary figure founded by the operation cost (less fuel) of the Jaguar over the previous year. It took us about 30 hours to prepare the case - not worth the trouble considering we were making more than $2000 per hour in the dotcom heyday.

     
  22. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Yes, conversion is a broad legalize concept, covers anything from theft to destruction to borrowing without permission to reducing value through unauthorized use & more
     
  23. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 17, 2004
    4,475
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    There are many excellent legal counsels here and this is one. From my perspective if there are no damages to your vehicle, I suggest to still gather your evidence (alleged video, witnesses) but try to resolve the issue "directly" with the owner of the shop before expending more time and money pursuing other avenue. If you are correct about what took place, there needs to be some returned consideration but give him a chance of offering.
     
  24. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Regarding getting damages I have 2 ideas, BTW I am a law student.

    Both ideas have to do with having a qualified mechanic present with you at the hearing or trial. 1) Have the mechanic explain to the jury what damage could occur to the engine/trans/suspension from the video footage. Have the mechanic bring an estimate of what it would cost to tear down the engine / trans to inspect for damage OR 2) have the mechanic bring an estimate for a complete engine/ trans rebuild. Of course he'll have to explain to the jury the high cost of parts, I'm assuming it was a Ferrari
     
  25. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    Aug 13, 2002
    3,726
    Santa Fe, NM
    since he was a custodian of the car, there are also duties he had to you under the category of "bailment" - your attorney will include that with the other causes of action . . .
     
  26. PeterS

    PeterS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 24, 2003
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    GF..If you don't take Mike up on his offer, there are always big, mean ugly people that would address this sort of issue on your silent behalf for a hundred bucks.

    What happened to yor car is a flat out crime. I would go off the map if that were my car. I am sorry that you had that happen to you. I am the nicest guy to a point and it takes a lot go get me steamed. I just hate getting bent over by shops and dishonest people. They are the maggots of society.

    Post the name of the business.
     
  27. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Wouldn't posting the name of the business without any irrefutable evidence at this point, or a filed lawsuit of public record be more damaging to the OP than anything else.

    I for one am wondering aloud how you would conclusively prove that a car in a video is specifically yours......trick wheels or other easily unique and identifiable features excepted of course.......I'm not saying the event didn't happen......just wondering aloud for everyones benefit how you'd prove it.

    Sorry to hear about your troubles.
     
  28. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    Nov 10, 2003
    17,918
    Atlanta
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    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    when all said and done, make sure you make us all aware as to the shop and it's owner. it is not likely the first time a "customer" car had been mis-used. at the least, his business will disappear.
     

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